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change up load question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mcurry2507, Jan 5, 2011.

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  1. mcurry2507

    mcurry2507 TS Member

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    I found this load while searching for a low recoil 11/8. Recipe is 24gr 800x figure-8 cheddite primer in a fed walmart hull. my lyman book has this load in a AA hull as 1250 fps and 8000psi. but this load in a AA kicked the snot out of her but the stait hull was suttle and she did great. now she is shooting a sx1 and i want to do away with the filthy 800x and try to find a red dot load that has same speed and pressure but i dont know what they are in the fed hull. Mike.
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Can't be done.

    And why is she shooting 1250 fps, 1 1/8 ounce loads anyway?

    Neil
     
  3. mcurry2507

    mcurry2507 TS Member

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    11/8 is the only bushing i have and she did horrible with several 1150ish loads. Iwas trying to gauge it mainly by pressure. All the games we play are from 27yd line. She was shooting this load through a 30in XT i have with no trouble. But a little dirty for the sx1.
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    First off, chamber pressure has nothing to do with recoil. The weight of the shot charge and the velocity control that.

    Second, there are Red Dot formulas in the Alliant online data guide: <I>Click This</i>

    20 gr of Red Dot in a Federal plastic hull, a Federal 209A primer and a Figure 8 wad holding 1 1/8 oz of shot will produce 1250 fps an 9500 psi pressure. But don't expect it to be soft shooting; 1 1/8 leaving the barrel at 1250 fps produces the same recoil no matter what components are used.

    MK
     
  5. tanda1

    tanda1 Active Member

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    16, 22 or 27...1150's will get the job done. Much more important to be able to stay into the gun.


    If you want to load Red Dot this is the place to start:

    http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx


    With the other components you listed I'd ditch the Walmart Feds and beg, borrow or scrounge some AA's or Gun Club/STS hulls.
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If there is no chamber pressure then there is no recoil, and if there is a lot of chamber pressure there will be recoil. That sounds like a relationship between pressure and recoil to me. HMB
     
  7. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with the Wally Fed hulls!

    Try 18.5 gr Red Dot, Claybuster 3118-12AR or 2118-12, Cheddite primer, and 1 1/8 oz of #8s with the Fed hulls.

    Werks fer me!
     
  8. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    hmb

    You are incorrect. Pressure has no effect on recoil. Only velocity and mass enter into the determination. Let us not dwell on "perceived" recoil as that is the ultimate "black science".

    Please do a search on recoil formulae and you will see that pressure is not a component of the calculation.

    It is a common misconception, but the laws of physics are quite sound.

    Don Verna
     
  9. mcurry2507

    mcurry2507 TS Member

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    First off unknown1 load this load in each of those hulls then second off shoot them, third off post back and you tell me the recoil is the same. The fed strait hull does not have the coned cup shaped base wad which allows less seal of powder. And "felt" recoil if you will can be changed with powder, wad, shot, primer flash, hull, (any component to a degree).
    @Tanda1- i load mine with AA but i didnt want her to worry about saving the hulls as much since we just bought her this gun and dont have shell catcher yet. i appreciate the loads and info thanks guys! Mike.
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Though I didn't see it the first time I looked, unknown1's load is indeed in the Hercules online loading guide.

    My first comment, that the load that mcurry2507 wants can't me made, was based on quite a bit of chronographing and pressure testing I've done and I've learned to stay away from "handicap-speed" shells with Red Dot, especially since Green Dot does such a great job with those shells.

    Still . . . while I wouldn't want to second-guess Hercules on anything, this just doesn't look right to me, so I thought I'd see what my equipment (which has not been calibrated) would tell be about that load.

    I always start with a few "test" shells just to make sure I'm getting what I expect. I use Federal Gold Medals since they are generally so well made and so close to what the box says about their performance.

    Here are five shells from some 3/7 1/2 Gold Medals from the last Grand in Sparta, bought from the shell house on site.

    First, a bit about my equipment. I use a Oehler 84 chronograph, which is of the "inductive" rather than "light-operated" type. It is all industry-standard, except that I use a cylinder choke for consistency, and this leads me to get shot speeds which are about 20 fps faster than I would expect to get if I used a full choke (which is industry standard.) The equipment applies a minus 20 fps correction, so the numbers you see are are about "right." Pressure is taken by a PCB 167a transducer which has given reasonable readings for years.

    Here are the Federal Gold Medals. The place to look is the summary, at the lower left.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"> FederalGrand2010shells.jpg </a>

    The Average velocity was 1214 fps, with a SD of only 2, which is great performance for sure. (The average pressure, noted as 100 which is 10,000 psi, also has a low SD of 300 psi. All in all great "test" shells and proof that Federal really knows what they are doing. (And that my equipment is working about as it usually does.)

    Here are the shells unknown1 referred to. Gold Medal hulls, figure 8 wad, 209A primer and 20 grains of Red Dot.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"> RedDot1250fpsshells.jpg </a>

    The average velocity 1271 fps, looks about right, and the SD of only 4 again shows very good consistency. It's the pressure that got my attention. On this equipment, it averaged 11,900 psi and with an SD of only 200 psi, it looks to be based on very consistent data.

    My pressure equipment has not been calibrated with industry test shells. So I'm not arguing with Hercules. But I'm not going to shoot these shells either. (Though I have run into factory shells like this every now and then.)

    Neil
     
  11. jhoward

    jhoward Member

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    Most powders don't burn well in loads only generating 8000psi, so almost anything you load in that pressure range is going to be dirty. You might want to try something more in the middle of the burn rates to get a decent compromise. Try looking at Green Dot or Unique instead of Red Dot. IMR4756 is another powder similar to 800x that you might try to see if it burns any cleaner for you.
     
  12. mcurry2507

    mcurry2507 TS Member

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    once again thanks for the help. Neil, the hulls arent gold metals they are cheap paper base wads that i only reload once. On the other hand i appreciate your time and research.
    Mike
     
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