1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Chamber damage, repair, more info. added

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by kirbythegunsmith, Dec 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    Shooters have discussed chamber damage - especially in context with steel-based hulls - but few times will you see stark damage examples; it is even worse to see the expensive/irreplaceable barrel mutilated in futile repair. Due to the previous examples of work that I have shown, this grievous situation that cried out for rejuvenation made it to the rescue center. Jobs that have been refused due to difficulty or botched due to underestimation of the situation have a way of providing new challenges here that conclude with relief for the distraught owner.


    I hope that these views tell a story of redemption for a favored gun that had been sorely missed on the line, so much so that the formerly flailing anxious backup gun shooter (at his first comeback turkeyshoot from the back line) said that he had won 16 of 22 that day. He also said that the new chamber was so tight that his reloads wouldn't fit any more, but factory shells are flawless in fit.

    If that doesn't make you want to say "Baby, I'm back in the saddle, again", ...


    Kirby

    ---------------------------------


    Here is a view set of the remnant damage where an inadequate replacement of worn chamber wall was unevenly blended into the oversized and roughened damage zone area.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=ringview.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>



    The shadows present at the rear of the chamber in these views illustrate the expansion zone for the case head of fired shells to sufficiently swell and inhibit extraction while allowing consistent use of a handy knockout rod. Good wrist exercise and practiced coordination helps to catch the fired hull while manipulating the rod - all without inadvertently dropping a multi-thousand dollar trap gun.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=chamberos.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>


    These views show some remains of original chamber/forcing cone roughness, and that opportunistic bulge area is still plain to see in shadow relief.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=roughcut.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>


    The look after completion is stark in comparison to the previous images, with flat contour and shining surface replacing divot, bulge, and scrape.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=smoothandshiny.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>


    No problem recognizing a dramatic and drastically overwhelming change for the better, including removal or reduction of existing reamer gouges in the forcing cone surface.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=newandsmooth.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>


    Some incidental scrapings in the bore in front of the forcing cone were materially improved during the finishing operations.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=scraped.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  2. FlyerTom

    FlyerTom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Nor'Eastern PA
    Barf, your alliteration is running amok. :)
     
  3. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,645
    You must get a lot of work being the only good gunsmith and having to clean up all these messes.
     
  4. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6,487
    So how is it possible to put "meat" back into the chamber/forcing cone/bore areas so that you can remachine the gouges/wear/machining mistakes out of them without ending up with an oversize product? Just askin'. Didn't know something like this was possible. You may have already answered this, but I guess I need it in layman's terms. Thank you for any response.

    If it's one of those, "If I told you, I'd be out of a job." deals, I'll understand.
     
  5. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,876
    Location:
    Central Coast of California
    In airfcraft repairs, vacuum deposition is used to build up metal surfaces so they can be re-machined to the original tolerances. I have heard of gunsmiths overboring the chamber and then pressing in stainless sleeves to get back to the original tolerances. Just like when they do the same for your firing pin holes.
     
  6. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,002
    How do steel bases do that much damage, or was thst the repair? Is this a problem with a particular brand of gun, shell, or a type of soft barrel steel? I've used thousands of Gun Clubs and have never seen that. Thanks,

    Wayne
     
  7. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,359
    Location:
    Rockford,IL
    E-mail sent
     
  8. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    14,738
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Thanks Kirby. I can spot steel based hull damage on the face of the receiver, but never thought of looking in the chamber.
     
  9. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    Whether or not the damage to the chamber was originally strictly steel-hull based, the first images are of the "after" of the first 'smith's repair attempts (multiple reworks) and not of a "virgin" chamber damaged by any particular type of hull.


    I used the reference to the often-mentioned steel base as a way to point out possibilities to those that had not heard of that detail before.

    Many of my postings have to do with expanding the knowledge of the readers and improving their exposure to unusual problems and solutions.

    Some might take this as an inference to others being unqualified, but if your doctor showed successful plastic surgery examples, is that thought of as inferring that nobody else is qualified to do similar work or create satisfactory results? I believe that readers like to see that unfortunate results or conditions can be improved or eliminated.


    Kirby
     
  10. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,645
    Well hell, noble on top of being humble, hear hear.
     
  11. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,301
    "I have heard of gunsmiths overboring the chamber and then pressing in stainless sleeves to get back to the original tolerances."

    Briley charges $275 to sleeve a chamber.
     
  12. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    The owner has stated that the barrel never was able to digest economy or steel head shells the entire time of ownership and regular competition use (about 2 decades) before the first repair attempt(s). He had to use STS, AA, or Gold Medal etc. and reloads of same.

    The first attempt at the chamber ring left a stark ridge line in the AA hull plastic just in front of the brass, enough that he was fearful of hull separation and considered those hulls as throwaway. The second rework made the AA brass swell and created hard extraction, and the third rework made every hull swell and need a rod to knock free.


    Now he says that the cheapest wallyworld loads work great, so he bought a load of those shells to shoot, since now extraction etc. is no longer an issue.

    He needs to reset his line of loaders to size the metal a bit smaller than he could allow before in the original chamber and the alternate guns/backup gun chambers, since the new chamber is such a tight fit. Plenty of room to wear in, now. Superlative extraction of economy hulls = happy shooter.


    I did also have to tighten the slack in the barrel lockup that had been inadequately addressed, but that is another thread (maybe) in the future. Suffice to say that the shooter can really tell the difference, all around.


    Kirby
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,358
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    Good work, Kirby. Making a gun digest econo hulls DOES make a happy customer.
     
  14. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8,741
    Hell, I have the rings in my KS-5 chamber and have never shot a steel based shell in it. 100% STS and AA shells and reloaded hulls. Jon
     
  15. Mapper

    Mapper Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Messages:
    684
    Location:
    SW Michigan
    Now that's interesting. Both my old Ithaca chambers are ringed. I may have to investigate this.
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Any estimate on how many rounds were fired for this to result?
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Could it be possible the ring some are seeing is where the barrels end is soldered into the mono-blocks? Methinks!

    Hap
     
  18. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    I have shown pictures at various angles to allow viewing different aspects of the described problem, so any similar views seen in another chamber/barrel will be noticed if also viewed at a similar angle.

    Some guns that have monoblock inserts will show a "line ring" or tiny gap, but the typical finishing process to the chamber wall will make the contour flat, without any sign of a bulge or apparent shadow that is quite stark in the previous photos.

    If you see a large shadowy area at the chamber rear, the shadow is the "low" spot and means you have a dimension shift. This is easier to spot in a smooth shiny chamber, but will be evident in a reamer finish chamber when it reaches a larger differential size.


    Some chambers show a blend line inside the chamber and don't reach the extractor notch in the barrel, and other monoblock tubes reach all the way through to the rim and can be more easily seen in the flat under the extractor relief, since the tube end must be likewise relieved there.


    Kirby
     
  19. kettles kritter

    kettles kritter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    nokomis, il
    I'm the owner of the gun this thread is about.

    kirby... thanks for saving my gun! It has been frustrating the last year trying to get my gun fixed, and it's true I had sent it away three times before I sent it to Kirby. Kirby is correct I am now a happy gun owner and I recommend his work!

    I will be honest, when I first found Kirby thru a thread on trapshooters.com, . I didnt know much about his work. I do know about his excellent work now. these pictures dont actually show how good my barrel looks and works.

    again thanks kirby! look out next year shooters I got my gun back !!
    lynn
     
  20. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,876
    Location:
    Central Coast of California
    Is this gun a Ljutic by any chance? I have heard that some people have trouble with steel based hulls and their Ljutics. One guy at my club had such a hard time with his, while another Lujic owner could shoot cheapies all day.

    I suppose the same can be said with just about any brand of shotgun.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.