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CGSTA winter chain rules???

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by poacherjoe, Mar 22, 2008.

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  1. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    I recently went to a winter chain shoot in Ca. and I shot the hdcp event at short yardage (20) and I got lucky and shot a 97 out of 100. I shot the best score of the day and I won the gold coin buckle,Or at least that's what I thought!!About 3 weeks later I recieved a call from a member of the CGSTA and he said they made a mistake! He said that the rules stated that I had to have a minimum of 500 registered targets in hdcp to qualify for the event,If this true I will give the buckle back,But I can find no documentation that states this rule.I was aware that you need 1000 in hdcp to shoot your yardage at the state shoot or you get penalty yards tacked on but I did not know anything about the winter chain event,Please if anyone on this sight can provide me with info on this subject please do!Thanks Joe
     
  2. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Joe - I have been involved in club managemane for over 10 years. I neither have read such a rule. However you must refer to the shoot program. I believe it is at the discretion of the club to set minimum target requirements.

    My advise, if you do not have a copy of the program, contact the club and get one. You can also email the secretary of the CGSTA, I believe his email in on
    the web page.

    Please feel free to email me if I can be assistance. - Jim Elliott
     
  3. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Joe - I have been involved in club managemane for over 10 years. I neither have read such a rule. However you must refer to the shoot program. I believe it is at the discretion of the club to set minimum target requirements.

    My advise, if you do not have a copy of the program, contact the club and get one. You can also email the secretary of the CGSTA, I believe his email in on
    the web page.

    Please feel free to email me if I can be assistance. - Jim Elliott
     
  4. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Ive never heard this.Where did you shoot this event?
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    It is true. You must have at least 500 HC targets in the current and previous years combined or shoot penalty yardage at 24 for adults, 22 for juniors. This is a requirement from CGSTA and it should have been so stated in the Club's Winter Chain Shoot Program. However, if it was not in the shoot program then I would say the buckle is yours because the shoot must follow the published rules, right or wrong.
     
  6. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    I shot at Kingsburg,I didn't expect to shoot that good and when I was told that I had won I didn't believe it! They gave me the buckle and took a picture and we went home.Then I found out that I was now qualified to shoot for a gun at the state shoot.WOW! ! Well then I was told that it was published on the flyer which I never saw.I recieved a flyer from Nevada county sportsman's club about the winter chain shoot and saw no wording about this so I became sceptical.I called Dave Mishler at Nevada County and he apoligized for having omitted it but he said it was a NEW rule that should have been on the flyer.I would like to know if anyone has the flyer for the winter chain shoot and if the rule was published on it. I can understand a mistake but when it's gone this far should I have to give it back.I did not play the lewis,I could have won some cash.Anyway's if anyone has advice please let me know before I relingquish the crown? Thanks Joe
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    "E. PENALTY YARDAGE
    Shoot Management may establish penalty yardage based on numbers
    of registered targets if those target requirements are printed in the
    program. In no event shall any shooter be assigned a handicap of less
    than the minimum yardage appearing on his/her Average Card."

    Neil
     
  8. Ray Brasser

    Ray Brasser Member

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    Penalty yardage at big shoots, or at smaller shoots where prestigious trophies are at stake, is not unusual. See ATA rule book, page 25, Rule VI,F. Shoot management may establish penalty yardage if the requirements are printed in the program. It's not unusual.

    The Kingsburg program stated, on the front page, a notice that said "Any shooter not having 500 handicap targets in the previous 12 months will shoot from the 24 yard line except for ladies & jrs. who will shoot from the 22".
    Clearly stated.

    This requirement was made part of the CGSTA Winter Chain Criteria on December 10, 2005, at a CGSTA Board meeting. You can read the minutes of that meeting on our website... cgsta.com.

    So penalty yardage is within the ATA rules, this particular requirement came from the CGSTA board 2 years ago, and it was clearly stated in the shoot program. We'll give away 20 gold coin buckles in the Winter Chain program this year, at 20 different California clubs, and all the clubs are familiar with this rule. The California Winter Chain buckles are not only quite expensive (at over $300 each) but they are very prestigious.

    Sorry it wasn't explained to you at the shoot. You shot well, but you didn't meet the target requirement for shooting for that buckle from the 20 yard line.

    Didn't they give you the short yardage buckle instead? That's no cheap prize in itself. You should be very pleased with the score you shot, but you didn't win the Winter Chain Champion Buckle fair and square.

    Hope to see you at the state shoot. Shoot well.

    Ray Brasser
    CGSTA Secretary
     
  9. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Ray; I would still like to have an original copy of the program you mentioned above,To prove what you say is true!I am not calling you a lier,Put yourself in my position and see what you can think of after you read my second posting above!I was given the gold coin buckle not the yardage buckle,READ what I already wrote above for the entire explanation then you will understand.
     
  10. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Lisa ,Now they need to locate the yardage buckle that I won and we can swap buckles!
     
  11. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Actually, I believe that in that the penalty yardage was in the program, you shot from the wrong yardage and your entry should be disqualified but you should still get the earned yardage that your score produced. As such, I don't think you are entitled to the short yardage buckle either.
     
  12. Augie Daddi

    Augie Daddi TS Member

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    Penalty yardage is the handicappers responsibility. I'd say the Handicapper made a mistake.

    Augie
     
  13. hardrite

    hardrite Member

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    Augie's right!!
    I feel that it is the handicapper's SOLE responsibility to check cards and all the necessary information needed in order for he or she to properly squad the shooter ( which was done ). Now they have to accept the mistake they made. The shooter did nothing wrong, why should he have to pay for someone else's mistake.My recommendation is to let him keep the buckle and provide another one for the other shooter. (have the handicapper pay for the additional buckle.)LOLOLOLO



    hardrite
     
  14. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Unfortuneately it is the shooters responsibility to shoot the correct yardage. The minimum target requirements was published in the program. Therefore the final responsibility lies with the shooter.

    That said whomever handicapped should be assamed of him/her self. They also have a responsibity to understand their duty. Sometime shooters do not pay much attention to programs. Especially if they have not received one and secondly newer shooters need all the assistance they can get. A very sad happening to a newer shooter. And I might add somewhat of a black eye for our sport. We need all the newer shooters we can get.

    I personally do not like penalty yardages, but if deemed necessary then I believe 22 yards would be penalty enough. But that my personal opinion. - Jim
     
  15. BMC

    BMC Member

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    Follow the rules to the letter and unfortunately leave a sore impression with a new registered shooter...or
    Bend the rules enough to allow the new shooter to receive the short yardage buckle for what really was a great score?
    That's a tough decision to make.
     
  16. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    True enough, BMC, but what's the fellow who DID leave with the short yardage buckle going to say? Do they buy another buckle to sooth all wounds? It's a most disagreeable situation and any fix will be unfortunate......Bob Dodd
     
  17. Augie Daddi

    Augie Daddi TS Member

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    If you're going to buy a 2nd buckle, buy the one for the Champion. Let this guy keep his champion buckle. An honest mistake by all. One that the Club should absorb. JMHO

    Augie
     
  18. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    It is and always has been the shooters responsibility to shoot from the correct yardage ... It is also the clubs responsibility to makes sure the programs are printed correctly and have the rules for penalty yardage included so the handicapper can justify placing a shooter at a certain yardage ... Buy another Buckle and be done with it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  19. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    I would agree a new buckle should be purchased and awarded. However I fail to see when the club was in error. They had the responsibility to print the minimum target requirement in their program, which they did. The handicapper blew it. That to me would be the responsibility of the CGSTA, not the club. I know Terry would do as he says. But all are not the true gentleman he is. - Jim
     
  20. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    What's with all this buy another trophy stuff? Yes, the classifier blew it, but we all know it is the shooters responsibility to know the rules and the penalty requirements at any shoot they enter. Unfortunately, he shot at the wrong yardage and s/b disqualified. He is not entitled to any trophy at all so there is no "swap" for another trophy in the picture.

    The requirements were clearly stated in the program, so exactly what basis is there to give him a trophy?
     
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