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Central Zone Shoot at Jaqua's

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by farmallh, May 26, 2010.

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  1. farmallh

    farmallh TS Member

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    Central Zone Shoot at Jaqua

    I received this email from Jaqua's this morning.

    Attached is your Jaqua’s 2010 shoot program.
    Hope to see you soon.

    We have CANCELLED our hosting of the Central Zone Shoot that was to be held on July 29th thru August 1st.
     
  2. alf174

    alf174 Member

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    bummer
     
  3. michmoe

    michmoe TS Member

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    Yep,that sucks! I was looking forward to going.Now I guess I wont be.
     
  4. Old Fowler

    Old Fowler TS Member

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    I agree with you Moe! I was also planning to attend that shoot. Under the circumstances, however, I can't say I blame them for cancelling.

    Which days are you shooting the GLG?

    Cliff Schultz
     
  5. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry to hear that. Is this because of the changes made to expand the zone sites?
     
  6. Terry L A

    Terry L A TS Member

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    Barry Roach read the thread "Hey Duckdog" and I think you will find the explanation. Terry
     
  7. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect to the Ranzau family and Jaqua's I think you are making a mistake by cancelling your part of the Central Zone shoot.

    In another thread Dave Berlet (who has my greatest respect) supports your move but are you really thinking of the greatest number of shooters in the Central Zone by this action? That's what Dave calls for but I don't think that the cancellation is consistent with with the principles of equality throughout the zone.

    The fact remains that Ohio zone sites just don't draw very many shooters from this part of the country and Ohio shooters sure don't support our neck of the woods either. It's just too far to go for that small of a shoot.

    The Central zone shoot has become much less important with the advent of all of the satellite Grands. The major shooting events have all been watered down and made the Zone shoots and even the Grand American less valid. It's hard to see the OSTA and the ATA at loggerheads. I hate it. I think it's time for a reorganization of the Zones and take some of the pressure off. It makes sense in this weak economy and more exciting when the zones meet against each other at the Grand. I think more zones and fewer states per zone is in order for the times.

    I also don't think that most of the new shooters know enough about what the ATA Zone Shoots even mean. The ATA certainly does little to promote them. The Trap and Field does little to describe them or their importance. Wouldn't you like to see a chart like the NCAA Basketball Tournament in the Trap and Field before they start so we all could see the winners per zone as they become available? I think it would bring some excitement to events and help promote the importance of them. Instead all we see is a bunch of individual shoot reports with no connection to their significance on the "Road To The Grand"!

    I'm not looking for a fight with Brad again. I hated that too. We need to take a closer look at our organization and make smart decisions as to a reorganization. Thanks for listening.
     
  8. alf174

    alf174 Member

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    That's fine for the future but I get the sense after reading these threads that you still don't get it. Jaqua's felt like they got shit on because the ATA folks responsible for setting these zone shoots up has acted in a very un-business like manner. Jaquas made a real investment in time & money preparing for the zone shoot based on an previous formulated agreement/arrangement. Then the ATA changed the arrangement without the courtesy of discussing it with Jaqua's or even a proper notification; why would a real business want to interact with an organization that acts like that? Its just too costly.
     
  9. michmoe

    michmoe TS Member

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    Hello Cliff, I will be shooting with the yoopers from Friday until Monday.Provided my mother doesnt take a turn for the worse as shes 91 and was just placed in the hospital with some serious complications.As far as I know we will be needing a fifth man as Al Bracket wont be shooting.If ya need a squad,look us up.Hope to see ya there....Moe
     
  10. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    What extra expenses did Jaquas incur to run a shoot as small as a telephonic zone shoot. Can't be that much more and the cancellation looks too much like sour grapes than it does the need to reduce losses.

    I think I get it just fine. Instead of wanting to do what's good for the greatest number of shooters in the zone they would rather punish the ATA. Makes no sense to me and I think it's unreasonable.
     
  11. alf174

    alf174 Member

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    Jaquas had to make a large commitment for targets months ago for a shoot that size. If they haven't already taken the delivery there may be a cancellation fee involved. You think that many targets is just sitting in a warehouse somewhere? They also printed programs to hand out for free. You think that cost is $0? C'mon, you can't possibly be that naive.

    And of course you think its fine, its the same dinosaur thinking from yesteryear that plagues the ATA today and now leaves a large portion of the Central Zone with no place to shoot the zone.
     
  12. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Jaquas was providing a service based on conditions provided and described by the ATA. Without notice, the ATA changed the conditions.

    Stunts like that cause lawsuits in the business world. Also very unethical/unprofessional.

    Jaqua's have been throwing ATA targets since God made dirt. Don't they deserve more respect than this?
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Barry you may find this hard to believe but most MI, OH shooters support Jaquas in this matter. Have fun at YOUR IL central zone shoot. The Central Zoned screwed with the dates and screwed with Jaquas and screwed the shooters of the Zone. Now have fun with the damn thing and quit making excuses and trying to justifiy the Cent. Zone dicisions in kissing IL butts.

    Don
     
  14. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    If they have the targets, the simple solution is to throw them on the dates they are designated to be thrown. No one has told them they can't.

    Maybe the ATA's decision was ill conceived but don't cut off YOUR OWN nose to make a point then blame it on everybody else. Throw those targets, have fun and enjoy a nice weekend of shooting trap.
     
  15. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Mr.Roach It,s Obvious you have never run a business .

    I say good for Jaqua,s showed they will act on principle and the ATA has little concept of same .

    You can only be shi$ on so many times before enough is enough . We as members see it all the time and I for one am tired of it .
     
  16. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Logistically for Jaqua's running a shoot of any size in Ohio on Sunday and then having to pack up their guns and head to the Sparta grand that opens on Tuesday is hard. Since the vast majority of Ohio and Michigan shooters don't blame Jaqua's for not going ahead with the cent. zone shoot (after what the ATA did to them) why would they hold it?

    A nice big fall money and merchandise shoot in October seems the way to go to me. To Barry's point I agree if they have the targets use em, but that doesn't mean you have to use them for ATA does it. There's nine times more non ATA targets thrown in Ohio than ATA.

    The thing that 38 years of trap shooting has taught me, the score is never in, the winners never known, until the last shot is fired, but if you mess up bad on the first trap your not going to win. The ATA messed up the first trap real bad, but unfortunatly like many shooters their blaming the puller, the weather, the trap setter, anybody but themselves, the real problem for their fate.

    It's been 5 years since the Grand's move to Illinois, Ohio has moved on, were getting along fine. Our state shoot is back up to good numbers, as a state association we have more money than ever. If the ATA had never left Ohio we wouldn't have found the Fishburn's family. As much as I loved Vandalia I'd never trade it for the Cardinal Center, and I don't think many Ohio shooters would. We in Ohio know how lucky we are.

    But does anyone think that the ATA didn't know what they were doing when they stiffed Cam, Nick, and George. They were using them to get back at Ohio shooters for not going to Sparta and the OSTA for being successful. They did it either out of spite or envey or both. If they didn't do it on purpose they did it out of stupidity which is even worse. Big Don's upset because he knows they'll screw with Michigan next. Hell the best Great Lakes Grand ever was held one year in July and it was huge. Shooters loved it, the weather was perfect, the MTA made money but some Eastern delegates didn't want a Satilite shoot against their state shoots so the ATA threw Michigan under bus and wouldn't let them hold it anytime but this weekend, even if the shooters, the MTA or anyone else wanted it in July. The ATA told Michigan and the shooters the ATA knew best,set down shut up. I encouraged the MTA to tell the ATA to take a flying leap back then, they should have listened.

    Brad Dysinger
     
  17. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Alf-99. You always have to make things personal. I have been in business for over 45 years. All successful. Retired at 57. No union pension. No pension at all.

    Ohio's argument is weak but it's theirs. We will abide by it and wish that they would care about the rest of the trapshooting world. Good luck.
     
  18. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Barry it is personal .

    Ohio's argument is weak but it's theirs. We will abide by it and wish that they would care about the rest of the trapshooting world. Good luck.

    I for one care about your trapshooting injoyment just like the ATA does mine .
    Do you really think most ohio and Michigan shooters will come to Illinois for anything??? When will you and the rest move the Central Zone to Sparta ?

    PS. A hotdog stand does not count as a Business (really)
     
  19. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Your a selfish man Alf99. As long as things suit your needs, to hell with everybody else.
     
  20. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Barry I really think you should look in a mirror . Your the one pointing fingers and telling everyone how it should be And it should all be in Illinois
    right . I just like shooting targets and registerd is just good targets to shoot . It looks like the ATA is about over I hate to see it . Alot of people still shooting just not registerd anymore (to much BS.)

    Barry if you think the only reason Ohio shooters don,t go to the grand is the miles you have not been paying attention again .

    I don,t live in Ohio and I don,t go to the grand and it has little to with miles .


    Just what did the shooters of Ohio do to make you so bitter ?
     
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