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Category rule change impact ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 635 G, Sep 14, 2009.

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  1. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone think of the impact of the category rules change?
    On the state team levels, Vets, Sr. Vet, Ladies, Jr. & sub. Jr. may be history. Unless local clubs don't require a shooter to declare at small shoots, you've got to be nuts to declare as a category shootyer any more.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    http://www.trapandfield.com/Articles/House%20Rules.html

    The new rule is explained in the above Trap & Field article by ATA past president Dave Kaiser. “The following rule changes are applicable to any shoot where All-American points will be awarded; for example, state shoots, Zone shoots and other large shoots, including all Satellite Grand Americans and the Grand American. Having said that, keep in mind that shoot management at other shoots may choose to follow this rule to keep things consistent.”

    The Sky is not falling but If that last sentence holds true, I will ask Shoot Management at every registered shoot that I go to what their policy will be in regards to awarding trophies to Category shooters. I think that any added money should be allocated by Class or Placement and not be based on any Category declaration.
     
  3. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I think the BS is just starting.

    Don
     
  4. Grizzly

    Grizzly TS Member

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    This has got to be clearly B.S.! I read what was in Trap & Field. Question> how can a 96 be better than a 97? If a lone 98 is high in dbls and 3 veteran shooters have 97, none of the 97's will be runner-up because they HAVE to shoot for the veteran spot and a score of 96 will become runner-up. So, in the end, there are 2 shooters with higher scores than the 96 that has been declared the runnerup champion and those 2 scores get nothing because of the stupid rule change....Sounds like Obamanomics to me.

    What is wrong with shoot-offs determining the trophies awarded?

    In the same example I stated above: 98 is the dbls champion,,97's shoot off for the runner-up spot. The 2 remaining 97's are still shooting for veteran, and if the last 97 standing is high score in his class then he will take that trophy. Process of illimination, simple.

    I just can't figure out how the E.C. thinks a 96 is better than a 97....

    Just my thoughts on this subject....

    I think the E.C. should use some simple logic and admit that a 97 is better than a 96....

    Grizzly Adams
     
  5. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    My sentiments exactly.
     
  6. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Lets say you are going to your state shoot. If you are a vet & declare for vet category, you may be the only person shooting as a vet. No money (in prizes), maybe there should be a reduced rate for category only shooters. This is the end oc category shooters at big shoots.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  7. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    Griz, wouldn't the vet 97's be eligable for runnerup in your example?

    Regardless of your declaration, I thought everyone was eligable for champ, runnerup or place?
     
  8. Aggie.

    Aggie. Member

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    No, Grizzly Adams is right. Read the new rule on the ATA website whereby category shooters who do not win outright the Event Champion, are ineligible to fall back to place, category or yardage. They must fall back to their special category ONLY. Unbelievable isn't it?
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Change, isn't that what the,,,,, oh never mind. Only the Einsteins among us could formulate such brilliance and gitter into action so quickly? Hap
     
  10. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    If you disagree with this new ruling, please contact your state delegate and let him/her know.

    BTW...are there any women who are delegates?
     
  11. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    In trying to correct a perceived problem that I don't believe existed, they have opened a virtual "Pandora's Box". And will express my feelings to our delegate as soon as I see him. JMHO J.Woolsey
     
  12. Aggie.

    Aggie. Member

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    Eileen Williamson from California is their delegate, and I believe she voted against this rule.
     
  13. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Griz, wouldn't the vet 97's be eligable for runnerup in your example?
    Regardless of your declaration, I thought everyone was eligable for champ, runnerup or place?


    No. category's under new ruling may only shootoff for champ, period.
     
  14. Kent

    Kent TS Member

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    why don't we let the high score be the winner. who cares if you are a catagory?

    I am a few years away from senior but I have enough trinkets, I want to be the lone winer.
     
  15. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    There will only be one state Team, Men's.( Vets, Sr. Vet, Jr., Sub jr & ladies will disappear.)

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  16. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    No. 1. Let’s assume that Greg Grizzled declared himself eligible for the veteran category at his state shoot. During the singles event, Greg tied with three other shooters for champion with a 200. In the first round of the shootoff, Greg fumbled a target and was eliminated. Greg is also the high Class B shooter, but under the rule he forfeits the class and must take the veteran award.

    Straight from the rule.
     
  17. Vickie

    Vickie Member

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    I will probably catch it for this, but I don't have a problem with choosing only one category, if you are in the position to be eligible for two. Example, either Lady or Jr. or Lady or Veteran, but not Lady and Jr. or Lady and Vet.

    If the old rule would have been firmly enforced, meaning, if you did not declare within 15 minutes ( or whatever time limit stated in the program) if you were going to shoot off for category or class, or whatever your option was, then you were given the highest priority trophy as stated in the program and the rule book. It just needed to be enforced FIRMLY. If someone complained about the shoot off committee's decision, as long as it was in compliance to what is stated in the rulebook or program, there should be no complaint.

    If a category was high in class or yardage they should be able to take class or yardage if they so wanted, but they should not be made to take Category.

    That is all they needed to do in my opinion.

    Vickie Larkin
    California 1st Alternate Delegate
     
  18. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I agree...that is all the fix that was needed.
     
  19. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    I agree 100% with you Ladies. J.W.
     
  20. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    John take it easy, I always guessed you were a ladies's man. Anyway I think theses 2 gals can out shoot us.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
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