1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Canting the gun....

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Nov 22, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    While this article is about the effects of canting a rifle and the bullet POI, I thought it might be interesting enough because the question of canting shotguns comes up from time to time. From the measurements I've seen, it wouldn't affect the POI very much, but regardless it is affected.
     
  2. Billster

    Billster TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    200
    Thanks for posting this, Brian. Will read more later. Have gotten involved a bit in prior threads re: canting the shotgun. Have read that although it doesn't have a huge effect on POI on a static target, it's used in TS to parallel the shotstring along the arc of hard angles in conjunction with muzzle rise. Right hander cants to the right on hard rights and visa versa for left handers. I have enough trouble right now before trying to start canting. But the theory makes sense.

    bill
     
  3. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,061
    A right hand shoot who cants their gun consistently to the left as they swing on targets will move their POI about 1 to 2 inches to the left whether they are swinging right of left.

    Morgan
     
  4. Charles L. Schmidt

    Charles L. Schmidt TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    410
    Wouldn't the height of the particular gun's POI dictate how much a cant would cause the POI to move laterally? And why would the shooters dominate hand matter? cls
     
  5. country gentleman

    country gentleman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    308
    Charles,
    You win the prize for hitting the nail on the head. Higher POI means more lareral movement of pattern. LH or RH does not matter. POI will drift toward the direction of the cant. This scenario makes proper fit even more critical. If the bbl is canted, the gun does not fit. Todd Nelson
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,371
    Canting the Gun, nobody does it better than Big Leo ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,437
    So far none of you fellows have gotten it right. It saddens me that none of you have a clue in regard to canting a weapon.

    OK, now that you've finnished cursing me up and down let's run a little test to see who's right. Take you shotgun and point it at the wall. Mount it without any cant, and press the muzzle against the wall. Take a pencil and draw a circle around the end of the barrel. Put a dot just above the front bead to represent a clay target. Now cant the gun 10 degrees to the left, keeping the muzzle inside the circle. The front bead will be to the left of the clay target, now move the gun while keeping it canted, so the front bead is again under the clay target. You had to move the gun to the right, your poi will be to the right if you cant the gun to the left. Right? HMB
     
  8. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    816
    If your gun shoots high, as most trap guns do, it will shoot the same direction you cant, the higher it shoots the more difference it will make. Only if your gun shoots low would the poi move in the opposite direction of the cant.
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,437
    Trap shooters do not have sufficient cranial capacity to figue out gun cant. It is sad but true. HMB
     
  10. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,860
    Location:
    PA
    The shot pattern will move opposite to the cant. The higher the POI the more this will be pronounced.

    If your bead were a nail and you stuck it in the wall and you then canted the gun the barrel will move in the opposite direction to the cant. It's not as intuitive as it first seems.

    HMB is right on.
     
  11. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,097
    Location:
    Iowa
    Jerry...using your senerio, canting to the left, if your shogun shot 100% high the pattern would still move to left because the bead stayed in the same place but the POI rotated with the cant. You would be correct with a 50/50 shooting shotgun.

    Bill
     
  12. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    955
    I have enough to worry about to even consider the ramifications of canting.
     
  13. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,942
    Location:
    Knob Noster, Mo
    I think some of you guys, hmb and Jerry, have been holding back!!!!







    Jim
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Boy there is a lot of confusion with different people stating exactly the same thing but using the wrong words. If you cant the bottom of the forend to the left that will cant the sight to the right. The terms left and right are inappropriate. Canting a gun to the left can refer to moving the forend or the sight.

    If we change left and right to clockwise and counter-clockwise, everyone who disagreed above will now agree. If a gun shoots high, canting the gun clockwise will, very slightly, move the POI to the right and down even less.

    Changing the POI 2-3 inches at 30 yards with a cant is insignificant.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,061
    <I>" Trap shooters do not have sufficient cranial capacity to figue out gun cant. It is sad but true. HMB"</i>

    ...and HMB need a lesson in basic geometry.

    In your "explanation", the bore is below the bead because they were against the wall. If fired from that oreintation, the POI would have been 100% below the bead and you would have been correct. But since trap guns shoot high, at yards the POI is above the bead since the line of sight along the rib and the path of the shot have crossed paths. Now, the POI moves in the same direction as the bead...cant left, POI moves left, etc.

    Morgan
     
  16. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,437
    Morgan,

    The only way thay could happen is if you were able to control the shot string using brain waves. And since the size of a trap shooters brain prevents that, when you cant a gun counter clockwise (OK Pat) it will shoot to the right because you have to move the gun to the right to attain your original sight picture. That is because when the gun is rotated to the left the sight bead moves to the left. HMB
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    HMB- Canting involves rotation of the gun around the front bead. The front bead is the center of the partial circle so it does not move at all.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    791
    There are many reasons a person may cant his/her gun. Physical build, eyes, or simply the way that person mounts the gun. If will have little effect if the mount is always the same. The mind will register the correct sight picture, most of us do not have sufficient reflexes to make corrections after we have called for the bird.

    Someone above mentioned Leo as an example. There are many fine shooter that cant their guns, in fact most, particularly on an angle target. One that really stands out in my mind was Phil Ross. Although Phil does not shot any more, when he did he canted his gun far more than most. On a left angle the gun was almost shot sideways. Phil was one of the best singles and handicap shooters in the country for years. He always shot his old Model 12 with the
    shock absorber stock. Not a pretty weapon, but deadly in his hands. - Jim
     
  19. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    791
    There are many reasons a person may cant his/her gun. Physical build, eyes, or simply the way that person mounts the gun. If will have little effect if the mount is always the same. The mind will register the correct sight picture, most of us do not have sufficient reflexes to make corrections after we have called for the bird.

    Someone above mentioned Leo as an example. There are many fine shooter that cant their guns, in fact most, particularly on an angle target. One that really stands out in my mind was Phil Ross. Although Phil does not shot any more, when he did he canted his gun far more than most. On a left angle the gun was almost shot sideways. Phil was one of the best singles and handicap shooters in the country for years. He always shot his old Model 12 with the
    shock absorber stock. Not a pretty weapon, but deadly in his hands. - Jim
     
  20. dverna

    dverna Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,717
    Pat,

    You are so patient. You must be a trap shooting saint.

    I got into this with a "good" shooter who was "helping" me. He insisted that the 10 degree cant I have was causing a 2 foot POI change. I quit discussing it - what does a newbie know anyway - right?

    Don (who cants his gun because he can't get his gun to fit right)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

canting a gun

,

why is canting a shotgun bad