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CANTING AND UNSINGLES—MY TAKE

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Phil Kiner, Dec 16, 2009.

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  1. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    I am going to suggest a slightly different issue as the problem.

    I agree with Neil on POI and height and high ribs. Canting with a high POI can be problematic.

    I think many shooters have trouble with the un-singles because the rib is far enough above the barrel that their eye “loses the bead” during the move to the target and they end up shooting off the end of the gun barrel. Everything looks good but they have a “mystery miss”


    I think this is a big part of the reason all of the very high thin ribs on the single barrels in the late 70’s and early 80’s lost popularity.

    Canting is not the major problem.
     
  2. nomoloscofoso

    nomoloscofoso Member

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    If one has this thing going on with a UN-single, is there any help other than going back to a plane conventional rib??

    Thanks Pete
     
  3. glenn mcleod

    glenn mcleod Member

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    I agree with Phil and if I use a high rib or under barrel I have to use a magic dot as my left eye wants to take over besides wanting to shoot off the end of the barrel. Makes for some ugly misses. Glenn
     
  4. Smok'n Joe

    Smok'n Joe Active Member

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    Holey Moley...what's going on here?

    Third GUN CANT thread in so many days!

    and now...Phil Kiner is talking about my MYSTERY MISSES too???

    no rib...vent rib...high rib...skinny rib...fat rib...tapered rib,
    and glow in the dark flourescent sights!!!

    Ho Ho Hoooooooooooooooooo...

    Merry Christmas!
     
  5. threedeuces

    threedeuces TS Member

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    I have a very high rib and I shoot one eyed and for the most part things are good. With what Phil said about the end of the barrel mite help me shooting one eyed.
     
  6. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    sportshot,

    I suspect the eye never loses the front sight completely. It hovers in your peripheral vision while you focus on the target.

    It might be worth trying a glow sight on the front to keep the eye from referencing off the barrel.

    Just a thought.

    Don
     
  7. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    "Makes for some ugly misses."

    Sorry to hear that, Glenn.
    All my misses are things of beauty.
    :)
     
  8. 4N6PE

    4N6PE Member

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    Phil;
    How can you "lose the bead" when moving to the target with an "Easyhit"-type front sight and your cheek down on the comb ?

    Ned
     
  9. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Phil, I shoot a MX15 for handicap. I am a two eyed shooter but hold a low gun. I hold it right at the lip of the traphouse. I don't have the problem you described. Is that because of the low gun hold?
     
  10. RAScott

    RAScott Member

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    I have a high rib gun, kolar ta max and to often go right over the target. I hold a low gun. when all else is good i get good solid hits.

    Bob S
     
  11. brett44

    brett44 Member

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    Ahh!!! The great who do voodoo of trap shooting. How many great trapshooters keep track of the bead as they move to the bird? Frank Little, Daro Handy, maybe Phil Kiner? Would love to see a more detailed explanation from Phil. Current PC teaching seems to indicate not seeing the bead after "pull". What's correct or can both techniques be mastered with great success.
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Just hang onto the gun and let your subconscious mind do all the work. If you conscious mind keeps interfering, a couple shots of cheap rye whiskey will solve the problem. HMB
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    HMB, if your eyes aren't locked on a moving target, neither your subconscious nor conscious mind will help you. I think what you refer to as subconscious is nothing more than using your peripheral vision skills without knowing what's happening. Peripheral vision isn't a subconscious act, it's real and depends solely on "seeing" the target correctly. I'll also add it much easier to say or write about than do, consistently.

    I feel a lot of trap shooters get caught up in the "pull-bang" timing syndrome. They key their shot off learned timing instead of a bird/bead relationship regardless of how they perceive the action. Why is some guys can break those illegal angles with regularity and others, when they do attempt such shots, miss big time? They shot with timing alone and didn't create a proper relationship with that target.

    Hap
     
  14. white rattler

    white rattler Member

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    Hap, nice meeting you at Tucson the other weekend to bad we did not have time to talk. Maybe later this winter. Trevor Dawe.
     
  15. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    hmb- My subconcious mind is thinking about things at home or at the office which frequently results in a forend flinch!
     
  16. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    "<I>Ahh!!! ...Would love to see a more detailed explanation from Phil. Current PC teaching seems to indicate not seeing the bead after "pull". What's correct or can both techniques be mastered with great success.</I>"

    brett44,

    get your hands on the November '09 edition of "Trap & Field" magazine. Phil has published precisely the detailed explanation you wanted from him in his column.

    MK
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Trevor, I'll look forward to that very soon too! I enjoyed meeting both you and Frank T. at Tucson.

    Gene Hapney
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Hap,

    The subconscious mind processes information without ever making a mistake. It is the part of your brain that you want to use when shooting trap. You will always have the right lead when the gun goes bang. It is referred to as "being in the zone". HMB
     
  19. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Phil to me Canting the gun is because the stock does not fit the shooter, not enough cast, to correct this they cant the gun.

    I have shot very high ribbed guns, but to me the SECRET is stock fit, the right cast-off and length of pull.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  20. nomoloscofoso

    nomoloscofoso Member

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    HMB

    Enter tiger woods!!
     
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