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Canterburys or human release

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by biggun4fun, Dec 27, 2008.

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  1. biggun4fun

    biggun4fun TS Member

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    I have a new problem in that my gun club has recently installed a counter system on the trap feilds and it gives 27 targets per round (you pay more if you use more)which with voice releases everyone knows targets are lost when any sound is made like guns closing, people talking, etc....so we hve started getting someone to pull for us . Now we have a human factor to contend with and the scores are dropping . I wonder if there is a better solution and if we shot all our targets like this would it be fairer and more like the game was intended to be without all this technology to help improve scores!!!!!
     
  2. sbhced

    sbhced Member

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    Why do human released targets cause scores to be lower?
    Ed
     
  3. spclays1

    spclays1 TS Member

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    Our club uses the Canterbury system for trap. I love it, I can practice ANY time that I can make it to the club. Don't talk while on the line. I only wish we had a way to shoot skeet anytime.....I do not like the ventriloqust(sp) system.
     
  4. biggun4fun

    biggun4fun TS Member

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    There is not a consistent relase of the target on a call is the only reason I can give ....maybe someone else can elaborate or give another reason.
     
  5. biggun4fun

    biggun4fun TS Member

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    I am not knocking voice releases in anyway but the dont work well with counter systems is my quandry!!
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Ref should turn the CVR off when calling scores when shooters change stations, and talking on the line has been a capital offense for years.

    HM
     
  7. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I appreciate the practical benefit voice releases have made to the economics of our sport, and agree that for this reason, they are here to stay...and overall, it's probably a good thing. However, I do believe they have made it easier to shoot good scores. Not necessarily easier to get from B class to AA...but I think they will get you a score of 100 or 99 in the course of a target year you otherwise wouldn't have had (as opposed to a 98).


    In the days of human pullers, you really had to focus on waiting for the bird to appear...no automatic guarantee of an on-time bird promptly on your call. If you started your gun too soon, you were even more @#$ked than you are today.


    And to think - there was no "Mulligan Rule" back then, either! You were expected to shoot the bird, as long as it was released within reason. Now some gay old wag may retort that "within reason" is too difficult to define and enforce. I can't really remember there being much of a problem. As for me, I'd rather have a slightly fuzzily-defined "tough" competition, than razor-sharp mediocrity any day. Now, we have electronic consistency, and yet, incomprehensibly, we've taken the liberty that Daro used to take for himself, and given it to everybody, what, 8 times a hundred? The two, simultaneously, are hard to justify. I may have to modify one of my positions; maybe the 3-hole bird does have some merit this day in age, after all. I'm still against mandatory 1oz. loads...but when I consider the effect electronic pulls and the 8/hundred Mulligan Rule have had...hell yeah, let's bring back the 3 hole!


    All the bitching is about target difficulty...but I think this is the real "lurking" variable that is often forgotten. Voice pulls (among other things) have spoiled everyone silly.
     
  8. smifshot

    smifshot TS Member

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    Voice released targets are ok I guess but the releases sure cause problems where I shoot. Seems to me there is always a "yeller" on the next field and lots of targets come on His call and not on our squad. With just 27 targets per round someone is always fooling with the terminal so we can get off 25 shots. It sure makes for a screwed up deal. I can understand what the man is saying.
    Smoker
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Voice release and automatic traps have increased scores. Some of us remember the old days of slow pulls and very wide left targets.

    I think that the problem described above is not a problem with the voice release systems but a problem with the shooters. To solve any problem, the problem must be addressed. Working on the results of the problem is not a way to fix things.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Buzz, I've not seen the voice release contribute to our sport economically. Actually they have cost us as clubs more money in target "breakage". I think this is what started this thread, is the complaint of running short on a counter system because of talking etc. Smarten up your shooters. They most certainly, along with a narrower field, have contributed to better scores overall. I personally still miss the "old game" with hand loaded traps and a scorer on whom you depended for a consistant pull on your call. Those days are gone forever, but they were fun!! Shoot well and often while we can, Bob
     
  11. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    Bob H.....smarten up shooters? HAH, lemme know when THAT happens, @ MM I will not shoot practice rounds on the coin-op field, got tired of only getting 23 birds cause dopes insist on fiddling with the stands, clanging them, talking.... wasting MY bird!!!FC
     
  12. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Frank....If you squad with dopes...you gotta expect them to act like dopes!

    Either educate them or find new squad mates!
     
  13. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    Another thing that the voice release has done to our game is it sterilized it. Gone are the days you can stand on the line and BS and tease one another when you missed. It has taken the human factor out of the game.
     
  14. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    We don,t have a COUNTER SYSTEM and I can watch target after target fly as guys talk . We will be doing something soon . It,s not going to be fun when our practice price goes to $5.00 or more a round because of this crap . The guys that do this will all say not me . At this time we a throwing 30 or more targets per-shooter per-round . It has to stop .
     
  15. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    We use a counter system at one of the clubs I shoot regularly. Unless someone is clumsy (hits a mike) or talks instead of shooting, there are very few extra targets thrown.
     
  16. abacus

    abacus TS Member

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    Sure miss the days when we shot glass balls with our state of art black powder shotguns, then somebody introduced those fangled clay discs. Ruined everything.

    The sport has never been the same!
     
  17. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    One of the main reasons that I came on this site as a Troll several years ago was because I was a Trap Boy back in the 70's. I hated ATA shoots and didn't really care much for Trap shooters as a whole. This was because EVERY TIME one of the "Good shooters" missed (it was actually even more frustrating when a D class shooter was having a bad day), IT WAS MY FAULT!!!

    Now, I'm one of those cranky, picky, overly-fussy, whiney Trap shooters. My, how life has it's twists and turns.
     
  18. FRedmon

    FRedmon Active Member

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    Human pullers - let's see - I spent over a year of my life "PULLING" for shooters at Pinehurst - Spartanburg and Durham Wildlife. These were state shoots and shoots like The Orignal Annie Oakley Trapshoot. If you shot at Pinehurst from say 1980 until 1993 I was there.

    It was tough trying to sift out all the loud talking and joking around that happened while I was trying to pull. I used to move the gun rack, bench and trash can just to get distance between me and the rude ones.

    Nothing has changed it looks like because the same rude shooters talk loud enough for folks to hear them from the 16-27. Try to concentrate and try to shoot with that junk going on.

    I have been listening to music while shooting since 2003 to drown out all that clatter and still there are folks that talk loud enough for me to hear them.

    I enjoy the cvr's and now the NC Homegrounds has thirteen sets of ERADS. They have really cut down on the "Hog Callers" that can consistently set cvr's off on adjacent traps.

    If you can find a consistent "human puller" then go for it. By the way I am not available.

    FRedmon

    PS - tell your buds to shut their yap and it won't set off the trap:)
     
  19. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    AHAB, ever walk up to a practice trap at a State shoot, wait 15 minutes to shoot, drop your token in and then only get 23, because of "some", maybe one dope that has to fidget, swear, drag the stand to get it in just "that" position......sorry, I cannot spot a dope till after he is already shooting lol
     
  20. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    With the ever rising costs of running a gun club and the fact that nobody wants to raise the price of shooting clubs are forced to opt for token systems to help control costs. As we sell the Target-Mizer II system the feedback from the club management has been very positive.

    Normally there is a period of time for shooters to get used to the idea that they have paid for 27 targets (or however many the club programs into the unit). And with a little patience everyone, including the dummies, figure out you have to be quiet over the voice releases.

    No question that voice release systems have levelled the playing field. Now everyone, not just the "big dogs", get great pulls and a good chance to win. I would hate to think about the bad pullers I have had over the last 45 year of shooting.

    Target management systems are here to stay. As Pat Ireland put it so well " Working with the results of the problem is not a way to fix things". Shooter awareness and education is a lot less frustrating than bitching on TS.com. If you find a person inadvertantly throwing targets, tell him/her nicely and 99% of them will thank you and stop doing it. Clubs should have a posted explanation of how the token or coin op works and how to prevent false releases.

    Shoot well,

    Bob Schultz
     
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