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Canterbury replacement Speakers

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by ric3677, Oct 10, 2005.

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  1. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    I know this has been gone over before but since we lost all the past data in the crash, I have to resort to asking again.

    We have the metal ones that come with the original wired Canterbury's. With time they have gotten beat up and some are not working properly.

    Can anyone tell me where to turn? We have tested all of ours and DB rates are located together which results in better working voice calls. Are the replacement speakers going to work with ours and vice-versa.

    I hope this all makes sense to someone.

    thanks in advance.......Rickyd
     
  2. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Rick, Go to this web site and go to speakers. Speco 5" abs speaker about 7.00 ea if you buy 5 speakers . Our club has bought them and installed the old connectors and they work great. Dave
     
  3. Sprinklerman

    Sprinklerman Member

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    grunt tried the sight came up not available.
     
  4. Beak

    Beak TS Member

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    Ric, go to Lashen.com (you type it in that way), and look for the Speco (SPC-6P) speaker. Less than $8 each when bought in qtys. of 5 or more. They work great. Grunt steered you in the right direction, but failed to put the HTTP in front of the website. Beak
     
  5. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Rick.........You have mail..........Dan
     
  6. k3uro

    k3uro Member

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    Hi,

    I have found lots of bad wire but even beat up speakers still work.

    Measure with an O-Scope, should be around 50 MV or in that area. That is all you need.

    All that can happen for the most part is the speaker will be an open, which is bad or almost a short which is normal.

    Take care,

    Jim
     
  7. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    An electronics supply house will have the microphone cable you want. Ask for 2 conductor shielded, make sure it has a braided shield. The 2 inner conductors get twisted together and go to pin 2. The shield goes to pin 1. Look for cable with a heavy duty outer jacket. In an emergency, standard 16ga lamp cord will work also.


    Eric
     
  8. Ohio Bob

    Ohio Bob Member

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    We have been using 18ga 2 wire cord now for a couple of years...No problems and you can by a 120 ft outdoor cord from Wally World for about $7.00
     
  9. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    thanks to everyone for all the info........Rick
     
  10. Towmotor Hank

    Towmotor Hank TS Member

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    I have purchased nearly 100 of the Speco SPC-6P speakers from an outfit called Spytown for $6.00 each plus shipping. Website: http://www.spytown.com/spc-6p.html These are the exact same speakers that come from Canterbury. They will not have the connector on the back, and will not have the necessary resistor inside to match the gain of the speaker. The Canterbury system is using the speaker as a miccrophone. It is very important to match the gain of all speakers on any given trapfield within 2db if you want optimum performance. All Canturbury replacement speakers are set within +/- 1 db. If you set all of your speakers to match the "factory" ones, then you can use them to replace any speaker on any field. This is the only way to go. We did not install the connector on the back of the new speakers, but ran new wire up through the hole which is provided by the speaker manufacturer, put an overhand knot in the wire and soldered it to the wires inside while installing the resistor which you should be installing to match the gain. This means that every time you have a problem with a mic during a shoot, you will be changing the mic and cord as a unit. You would then take your mic/cord assembly to your workbench and test it to determine the problem, and repair or replace the faulty part as necessary. This is a little more expensive initially, but it eliminates the connection at the back of the mic, which can be problematical, and also eliminates the need to determine if the problem is actually in the speaker or the cord while the squad is waiting. You simply change both in one step and let them get back to shooting.
    We did not reuse the canterbury cable, which is garbage, but purchased new microphone cable of a much higher quality in 1000 foot spools for about $135. This is enough cable to redo 3 sets. This is where we got the cable: http://www.cablewholesale.com/specs/60m2-021th.htm We also bought new connectors for the end that connects to the large gray box. These connectors cost $.60 each. Here is the website: http://www.futurlec.com/XLR-MIC.shtml
    You should use heat shrink tubing where the cable goes inside the connector, and then put a larger section of heat shrink tube over the back end of the connector and the first piece of tubing. This double layer will stiffen things up at a stress point which is susceptible to breakage.

    You should definitely go with the shielded cable mic cable, at least 22 ga. Yes, unshielded lamp cord will work in some situations, but if you have multiple trap fields in close proximity, overhead power lines, pole mounted transformers, etc, you could have a problem with interference. Besides, the corecct cable will not cost you much more, and will be trouble free. You will not have all internal wire breakage with the above listed wire that you had with the original Canterbury garbage. Please follow the recommendations of mixer's post above as to the connections on the soldered connector. He is right on.

    For the resistors, You will need a large assortment of values. the resistors needed are 1/4 watt carbon film 5% tolerence in sizes from about 8ohms to about 80 ohms. These are very cheap, about .03 each. We purchased 10 different values, 100 of each. That sounds like way too many, but the whole order was less than $50 with shipping, and we were doing a lot of mics and didn't know what sizes we would be using the most. You can get your resistors here: http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/SearchResults.asp?sid=479BC9807424E17F&N=4294824962+4294874147+4294924808+4294824363+4294911897

    After you acquire all of the above you will need Bryan Pierce's test kit to test and set the gain on all of your replacement mics. You will need the tone generator, and db meter to measure the gain on the new speakers and an assortment of resistors to adjust the gain. His kit is the best, and will set you back about $200 for everything. If you give Bryan a call, he will answer any questions you may have, and will definitely get you going in the right direction. He is the foremost authority on the Canterbury system in this country, and is the most helpful guy you will ever meet.

    Figuring out which resistor will give you the desired gain is a trial and error process. If you get an assortment of resistors of 8 or 10 different values, and mount 1 of each in a row on a breadboard, link one end of all the resistors to a common lead and attach that lead to one of the wires inside the speaker, and then using a jumper wire attached to the other speaker lead, touch the other end of the jumper to other side of each of the resistors in sequence until you get the desired gain on the db meter, you will be able to determine the correct resistor to use. You would then simply solder a resistor of that value accross the red and black leads inside speaker right where you are soldering the speaker cable to them. I know all this sounds pretty complicated but once you get all the stuff together and get started, it will get pretty routine. It is a good winter project, and you will have voice callers that will work reliably for many years. You can assemble a set of 5 brand new mics with new cables and connectors, all of which are better than original for less than $100 per field. If you have any questions you can email me at the above address.(delete the x's)

    Hank Fratz
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have dabbled enough with speaker repair to recognize that Hank Fratz knows what he is talking about. His above post is one of the most useful I have ever seen on speaker repair. Thank you Hank.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. Mark V

    Mark V Member

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    I'd like to second Pat's comment on Hank Fratz's post. The most through post on this topic to date.

    I'd also like to add that Brian Pierce recommended to me to use a 0 to 200 ohm potentiometer for testing purposes to match the speakers sensitivity and then of course to match it as close as possible with a fixed value resistor. Every club usually has at least one shooter who has enough electronics background to handle this.
     
  13. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, someone drug this up from the depth....back in 05.

    Nice post Hank.

    Rickyd
     
  14. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Where is Hank Located?
     
  15. erm

    erm Member

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    Great post Hank! What did you use for a db meter? Elon
     
  16. Towmotor Hank

    Towmotor Hank TS Member

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    I am located in New Jersey, and my club is Pine Belt Sportsmans Club. We bought the db meter from Bryan Pierce, and also the tone generator. Most of what I know about the Canterbury systems I learned from calling him and asking questions. Actually you should talk to him before you buy anything, and he will tell you just how complete of a test kit you should buy , based upon what you intend to do with it. If you don't want to do all of this work yourself,he also can provide prematched speakers, and upgraded cables which are ready to go. These are not Canterbury products. They look like the original equipment, but are actually much better quality, especially his speaker cords. He also repairs control cords, power supplies, and the gray control boxes. In fact if you are having recurring problems with your systems, and are not coming up with a good solution, he is the first guy you should be talking to.

    All of the bench work on our systems at Pine Belt gun club was performed by one of our most dedicated and skilled members, Dave Liming. He is retired and generously donated many hours of his time, as well as his considerable skills to the project of upgrading 14 sets of wired Canterbury systems, and creating many spare components. Prior to this project our club had many problems with our voice callers and quite few disgruntled shooters. We now have about the best performing voice callers you will find anywhere, and the shooters and the club owe a great deal of gratitude to Dave.
     
  17. kolar12

    kolar12 Member

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    I would like to ask a slightly off topic question. What do you think of the wireless units? I believe that they are in the neighborhood of $2,000. If you don't have to "dork" with them replacing wires, etc, are they worth the expense? I know that they would be nice in the cold and snow that we have.

    Thanks, Gary
     
  18. butch's90t

    butch's90t Member

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    Great thread! Good questions and answers. I have a question, when you balance the speaker dB's are you looking for a peak reading or something less to prevent extraneous noise from triggering a target? What would an average reading be? Thanks, HarryC
     
  19. Mark V

    Mark V Member

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    It's my understanding that a specific DB reading is not so important as having similar sensitivity within a group, say all speakers +/- 1 DB. Looking for a specific value would necesitate using similar signals at similar levels and performing the tests the same. If I recall, Bryan Pierce's tone injector is a typical telephone industry warble model. The tone generator is connected to the speaker leads and the DB meter held close to the speakers to minimize receiving reflexions from the surroundings (each test of each speaker should use the same distance of the meter from the speaker). After recording the readings of all speakers without a resistor, resistors can be added to the group to lower all readings so they are similar.

    If I'm incorrect with any of this, please correct me.
     
  20. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    NY trap,

    You are spot on. It really does help if all of the units are close in DB. That way when the wind is blowing you won't get phantom releases. Or should I say as many. Of course most trap clubs don't have wind. Just Great Falls. LOL

    shoot well and have fun........Rickyd
     
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