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Cantebury ATA voice controllers - built in delay?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by j2jake, Nov 9, 2008.

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  1. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    It is my understanding that there is a delay. It can be removed. There is also a delay between pulls. Brian Pierce aor the folks at Sob Schultz can give the exact info. Jake
     
  2. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    The Canterbury delay between targets is around 2.5 seconds. It takes the trap machine that long to spool up and be ready to throw again. I've never noticed any delay when "pull" is called. Tap a microphone stand and see if there's a delay.


    Eric
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Between targets, you have to have time for the trap to reload.

    At the call, my information was that the delay is .6 seconds, which approximates good manual pulling.

    HM
     
  4. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Shooters,

    The original Canterbury wired voice release had a .5 second delay to mimic a good puller's reaction time with a button on a Western 1524 manual trap. Understand that 10 years ago there were no major shoots on PatTraps or the like. The 1524 has a very fast solenoid release and an instant release would pull you right out of your shoes! Hence the delay. Roll forward 5 years and the ATA and most of the major shoots are installing PatTraps and the delay becomes a bit more evident as the Pat has a release using the cocking motor pushing the arm past the release point on a cammed spring ... even when adjusted well it is .3 - .4 sec slower than a Western 1524. Canterburys produced since 2004 have been speeded .2 sec to compensate for the slower release of the Pats. If you adjust the arm/brake on a Pat it is almost as fast with the newer systems as the old Western traps. The Wireless CVR is also faster to compensate for the PatTrap release.

    Older boxes can be speeded up by sending them to my shop. Target Shotguns, Inc.,800-684-6329 We will recalibrate speed and service the box for $45 + parts. After the service it will have a one year warrantee just like a new one. The newer boxes can be set to a zero delay by changing the #2 dip switch to the opposite position. You can do this yourself and if you have any questions call us on the above number and we'll walk you through it.

    Doubles shooting with a zero delay on a PatTrap is the next best thing to sex. You say pull and the target is right on top of your barrel! Cool! Just make sure all the traps are set that way or you will have nightmares with the different speeds! Daro Handy and a lot of the western shooters like the zero delay on all the disciplines..singles, cap's and doubles. I do too, however you might want to try it yourself.

    Thanks for reading this stuff!

    Bob Schultz
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Bunker is Bunker and ATA is ATA.

    If you go to a club to shoot and they don't have Voice activated, and you get good pulling, you should be able to shoot jsut about the same.

    If you shoot fast pulls at your home club and go to another place to shoot, you will have slower pulls than you are used to and probably get all frustrated and shoot like dog poo.

    This is the first time I have heard this one, and Voice calls have been around quite a while now.

    Live with it.

    HM
     
  6. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    One more note here. Due to the release set up on a PatTrap you can not get a true instant release of the target. Too much has to happen before the target gets off the machine. Only a solenoid release like the Matarelli Olympic machine or the Western 1524 will produce a true instant target.

    I believe Laporte machines and some of the Promatic machines will also produce a true instant release however please check with the manufacturer as I am not 100% sure.

    Shoot well, Bob Schultz
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Another source of delay is the microphones (transmitters). All microphones used on one field should be matched. They are when they come from the factory but they can get knocked around at a club. If the position of the magnet inside the microphone is changed, the thing can give pulls different than the other 4 microphones. Tuning the microphones can be done by changing the resistors.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    The dinosaurs have it right. It is harder to shoot a target with a delay than instantly released, why do you think Daro turned down all those targets over the years. Why do you think they put a delay in certain shooting venues??

    Sportshot you are just an expert on everything. Release time, shot string, shot size and who knows what else.

    Don
     
  9. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Start changing to "instant" release on a CVR/Pat trap and you'll hear screams of "FAST PULL" from coast to coast.


    Eric
     
  10. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    The Laporte trap mchines do have a past center release using a solenoid same as the 1524 system.

    The delay in the Cantebury is to copy the human reaction time involved when you have someone pulling (pushing) the button. The delay you are discussing is in the Pat trap design.

    If you don't think so, set the Cantebury to zero delay and put it on a 1524. It will jerk you off the station. Then put it back on the Pat trap and you will see the difference.
     
  11. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    If you want fast off of a Pat, just buy the Erad unit. You can set the delay to anything you want.

    JMHO Rickyd
     
  12. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    We're altering our brain boxes to accomplish the faster pulls at Cottage Grove-Eugene (Orygun). What the mechanics see is that it's much simpler have as close as possible to instant release from the brain box then adjust the release point on the Pat Trap as necessary to synchronize the several machines. The difference is clearly evident when compared one way then the other. Before, with the built in delay, we were having to adjust the release points on the machines to where there was always wind milling or near windmilling to speed up the release. I personally do fear that our members will find shooting at other clubs may be a dilemma however......breakemall.....Bob Dodd
     
  13. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    One more note,

    We can ... or should I say Gary Parker my CVR technician can, install a delay/instant switch on the older boxes so you can have what you like! The newer boxes with the dip switch inside can be switched back and forth however you have to open the box.

    $45.00 Plus shipping back to you.

    Thanks,

    Bob Schultz
     
  14. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Sportshot you have a PM

    Rickyd
     
  15. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Bob is there a problem with your web site?
     
  16. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    To Bob Schultz, when the scorekeepers are a little slow especially on Doubles we often get an extra pair of targets on the scorekeepers Call. Is there any way to increase the delay between cycles so as not to waste targets ??
     
  17. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    miketmx

    Just move the scorekeeper back about 15 feet and the problem goes away. From my experience as a scorer/puller when I was a kid (when dinosaurs roamed the earth) I found it easier to score/pull doubles from about the 25 yard line. I did not have to move my head, only my eyes to see both targets. Up close you get tired looking back and forth, so you actually solve 2 problems by moving the scorrers back to the 25-26 yard line for doubles. If you have a scorer with a loud voice, turn the mics straight up in the air. That will reduce the effective range of the mic to 3 - 4 feet from the stand.

    Many clubs are now using the no call for dead pair method. We don't call singles "dead" only "lost". Why do we call all the doubles ... because grandpa did it that way. I personally prefer the puller only call if there is a lost/dead, dead/lost or (God forbid.) lost pair. We shoot this system at a few clubs around the USA and its really nice. Food for thought.

    Good luck!
    Bob Schultz
     
  18. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    grunt,

    Click on the above link and then hit the right mouse button when you get the site up and left click on "refresh. You may have an old "cookie" in your computer, this should fix it.

    Bob
     
  19. Maytag

    Maytag TS Member

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    Sorry to tell ya Bob, but I also tried your link and refresh method and web site will not open...
     
  20. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    Maytag is right. I get a popup that says website not available. Get the popup from both your link and typing in the address.

    Eric
     
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