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Can't get butt of stock in the same place twice

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jalu, Oct 5, 2008.

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  1. jalu

    jalu Member

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    ....when I mount my shotgun. This seems to be something that I seem to be having problems with lately. I know, it sounds so easy, but I seem to be able to find at least a dozen diffrent locations on my shoulder to place the pad before calling for the target.
    I have tried, over the coarse of the summer, to find a repeatable and constant "sweet spot", that on every shot I can place the butt pad in/on. It's NOT the pad, it doesn't matter which pad I have installed and I have tried just about all of them, (5 brands, 4 diffrent configurations) the same issue exists, random pad placement on every round of trap. My pad mount is also adjustable in up, down, left, right and cant.
    Yes, I have my elbow raised and parallel with the ground to help press the butt stock into the pocket on my shoulder. No, I don't have anything slippery applied to the pad or vest.
    My "mount the gun routine" has been to mount-dismount-mount-dismount mount-dismount, you get the idea, until I finally feel that it's in the right spot. This has really started to mess with the rhythm of the squad (my friends are getting annoyed) but most of all it seems to upset my rhythm which in turn is costing me lost targets.
    I know that I'm not getting consistant mounts which leads to inconsistant point of aim and inconsistant scores.

    Mr. Kiner, if you happen to run across this post, please feel free to email me so that we can exchange phone numbers and discuss this in length, on my dime.

    ......thanks to all who are willing to help me work through this small but troubling hicup in my shooting routine.

    Jace
     
  2. jalu

    jalu Member

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    A little FYI that I should have added is that I have, and have read in length, Mr. Oswalds excellent information on gun fit. Also, I have had my trap gun, a KX-5, fitted to me by a stock fitter as well as Mr. Ohye while attending his five day clinics during the last several years.

    ...it's just me I guess.

    Jace
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jace- Some months ago I mounted the tip part of a felt tip pen in the lower screw hole of my recoil bad and shot a practice round. I did wear an old shirt. I clearly demonstrated that I have the same problem that you have.

    Soon, perhaps this Winter, I plan to practice mounting my gun several times each day. With some practice, I think I can get it right. I suspect that you have described a widespread, and unknown problem to many shooters.

    Pat Ireland

    PS- Do not practice mounting with a loaded gun. I do know of a shooter who many years ago shot a large mirror above his fireplace. The shooter was at a live bird shoot (get two shots at each bird). He put his gun away with one shell left in the top barrel. You can figure out the rest.
     
  4. hairtrigger

    hairtrigger TS Member

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    get a morgan pad
     
  5. BBMAX

    BBMAX TS Member

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    Hello "Jace" - Most shooters mount their gun the wrong way. It sounds like you do to. May I suggest that the groove under your cheek bone never moves and THAT should be your reference point on every gun mount. Most shooters slap the gun into their shoulder and then drop their head onto the comb. This is backwards and I coach shooters to do the exact opposite.

    (1) stand fairly erect and (2) bring the comb of the gun to to that groove in your your cheek, Then (3) plant the butt of the gun onto the pad created by your shoulder when your elbow is raised. Remember Cheek and then Shoulder. Also, mount your gun slowly and don't slap the gun onto your shoulder and drop your head on the comb. Remember, cheek first and then shoulder second. This prevents you from raising your head or "tieing up" in the back on Posts #1 and #5 (making you shoot high and behind the target) when you swing for hard angle shots. I wish you good shooting.

    Bruce Maxwell
     
  6. tuscarora 99

    tuscarora 99 TS Member

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    Have you tried every day getting your gun out, and repeatedly pointing it at something. The same exact spot on your shoulder and your target every time.
     
  7. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Heck, Pat, I thought you were going to tell us that you ended up with an image of Obama on your skin and it decided who you're going to vote for.
     
  8. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    BBMAX, does that method work for a shooter who has a long neck but does not shoot a high rib gun? Wouldn't a shooter like that catch mostly air with the butt pad?

    And if you use a Jones adjuster on a low-rib gun and adjust it all the way down, does that ever promote cheek slap?
     
  9. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Jack, send that to me, please. I would like to see it. But the question was rhetorical...I've already been through all of that.
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Curvy you must be doing something right based on the cap score you just shot. How about repeating that mount?? You repeat what works.

    Don
     
  11. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Don, again...

    The questions were rhetorical. I've already solved those problems, and it wasn't by bringing my gun up to my face. I don't like high-rib guns...not yet anyway.
     
  12. BBMAX

    BBMAX TS Member

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    Hi "recurvyarcher"

    Your question above regarding gun fit and high vs low rib is a good one even for a long neck shooter. On the other hand, if the shooter has the gun properly fitted the comb will not slap the shooter's cheek. Your question assumes that a long necked (or low rib gun) shooter mounts the gun on his shoulder first and then lowers his head to the comb. Again, this is backwards and the Comb must come to the cheek bone and THEN the butt of the gun gets planted onto the shoulder. The comb, on a properly fitted gun (long neck or short necked shooter and high rib or low rib), should slide under the cheek on recoil and not slap the shooter. I hope this answers your concern properly.

    Bruce Maxwell
     
  13. JOND

    JOND TS Member

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    Make sure you RAISE your shooting arm ELBOW so as to form a "pocket" wherein to place the buttplate. Hope this helps. JOND
     
  14. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I suspect BBmax is correct. Anything else is fitting the shooter to the gun. The opposite of what you really would like to have. The gun fits the shooter.
     
  15. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Personally, I think the whole "mount the gun exactly the same way" thing is somewhat overblown. Now I'm not advocating sloppy gun-mounts but if the EXACT location that the pad meets the shoulder pocket varies slightly from shot to shot, letting this trivial factor get inside your head will cost you more targets than the slight inconsistency itself. I'm sure if I were to try Pat's felt tip pen experiment I'd come up with an area at least a half inch square.......maybe bigger? Only becomes a problem if I let it get inside my head.

    I can understand why your squadmates are getting a little annoyed, you get a guy who screws around like this on the squad and any semblance of "rhythm" goes out the window. Solution; practice yourself a mount that will consistently place the butt in the shoulder pocket so your cheek is resting comfortably and consistently on the comb (this cheek to comb contact is FAR more important than butt to shoulder contact) and then just shoot.

    Yes.......to play the devil's advocate, I'm suggesting your fussy perfectionism is costing you (and your squadmates) more targets than it's worth.

    John C. Saubak
     
  16. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    LOL.......works for me? And if occasionally I sense the butt to shoulder pocket contact is a little off, I just tell myself to keep the wood on the wood and don't worry 'bout it........

    John C. Saubak
     
  17. prorider

    prorider TS Member

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    Git you one of them thar headcatchers and one of them thar shock sticks and Ill bet them cows git their butts in the right place.
     
  18. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    BBMAX, even with a jones adjuster ALL of the way down, if I hold my head straight and bring the gun to my face, more than 3/4 of the butt stock is above my shoulder. When the recoil comes back from the receiver, the force vector goes straight back over my shoulder. The opposing force vector is below my shoulder level where the jones adjuster hits. Two opposing forces, separated by a distance, creates a rotational force. The shoulder vector points forward, the over-the-shoulder vector points behind me. That rotational force causes muzzle jump, and I get a boo boo on my cheek.

    I can't just increase the length of the comb posts and raise the comb, as it creates a ridiculous site picture, unless I also add a high rib, which I have a difficult time shooting.

    Until I learn to shoot a high rib gun, what else would you suggest, other than mounting the gun as high as I can and bringing my face down on the gun?
     
  19. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Remember what works for one doesn't work for all.

    Don
     
  20. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    MIA, great video.. watching at timeline 31-33...
     
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