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CANADIAN MPs VOTE OUT LONG GUN REGISTRY!!!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Nov 7, 2009.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Totally ignored by the US main stream media, of course.

    And this clearly shows that mass defiance, not compliance, does work.

    This is not a done deal yet, but very close.

    http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2009/11/04/gun-registry-vote004.html

    Last Updated: Thursday, November 5, 2009 | 12:12 AM ET CBC News

    The federal long-gun registry moved a step closer to being abolished as MPs voted Wednesday in the House of Commons to scrap the controversial program.

    With support from 18 Liberals and New Democrats, the private member's bill passed second reading 164-137 and now goes to committee.

    If passed, Bill C-391 would scrap the decade-old registry and destroy existing data within the system on about seven million shotguns and rifles.
    Prime Minister Stephen Harper rises along with Environment Minister Jim Prentice and Defence Minister Peter MacKay to vote in favour of the bill to abolish the long-gun registry in the House of Commons. Prime Minister Stephen Harper rises along with Environment Minister Jim Prentice and Defence Minister Peter MacKay to vote in favour of the bill to abolish the long-gun registry in the House of Commons. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

    The legislation was proposed by Manitoba Tory backbencher Candice Hoeppner.

    "I think it's important that the Liberals and NDP allowed a free vote and that many of their members supported the private member's bill," Hoeppner said.

    "It's step one. There's still a lot of work to do, though."

    Because the proposed law was introduced as a private member's bill, opposition MPs were permitted to break from party lines and support it.

    That secured support from New Democrats and Liberals from northern and rural ridings, where opposition to the gun registry is strongest.

    "I favour a gun-control system, but I do not favour a gun-control system that makes criminals out of farmers and hunters,� said PEI Liberal MP Wayne Easter.

    The Conservatives have long opposed the gun registry, brought in by the former Liberal government in response to the killing of 14 women at Montreal's L'École Polytéchnique in 1989.

    However, there is unwavering support for the gun registry from such groups as the Coalition for Gun Control, the Canadian Chiefs of Police and the Canadian Police Association.

    Wendy Cukier of the Coalition for Gun Control said firearm deaths. including suicides and murders of women, have declined during the time the registry has been in place.

    Cukier, who watched the vote from the public gallery in the Commons, called it "appalling."

    "It wasn't even close," she said. "It's horrifying and a lot of Canadians are going to wake up tomorrow and find out about this for the first time."

    The mother of one of the slain Montreal students made a public appeal to the MPs this week, imploring them to preserve the gun registry.

    Conservatives argue the registry has been a billion-dollar boondoggle, although a 2006 study by the auditor general found that eliminating the long-gun portion of the registry would only save taxpayers about $3 million a year.

    In an annual report from Canada's Firearms Commissioner prepared by the RCMP, police said they used the registry more than 2.5 million times in 2007.

    But Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan has not made the report public.

    "Canadians don't need another report to know that the long-gun registry is very efficient at harassing law-abiding farmers and outdoors enthusiasts, while wasting billions of taxpayer dollars," Van Loan's office said in a release Wednesday.
     
  2. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Any Canadians who can fill me/us in on the ramifications if the bill passes.

    Thinking ALONG THE LINESOF AS NOW getting PERMISSION to purchase long guns such as competison shotguns and shotgun shells.

    Why I ask--two years ago was home in Sydney NS and was going out to the CAPE BRETON GUN CLUB --knew they didn't have in shells and went to Wallymart to pick up a flat. And forgot that I needed a gunholders permite to purchase-felt like a criminal --called my buddy Russel who was on the way in and he picked me up the flat.

    So anyone know about the changes--probably some kinda catch 22...where not needing to register the longgun but needing a permit to buy same and ammunition...what a bunch of wusiss..MIKE
     
  3. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    MP's from the Liberal and New Democrat party crossed party lines in this free vote and voted to strike down the legislation. Now it goes to committee and then to the Senate. I don't know the time frame for the bills' journey throught those two processes. Only after it has passed through all the hurdles, will it become law. Those of us who believe the long gun registry was a law focused squarely on law abiding fiream owners only are quietly rejoicing that this first important step has taken place. Forearm ownership groups have been urging the public to contact thier MP's to urge them to vote for the bill and apparently it had an effect.

    As you can imagine, the liberal media, big city mayors, police chiefs and left wing groups are reacting as if hoards of barbarians will invade thier world forthwith and rape and pillage at will....go figure....

    Ron Burr

    Alberta
     
  4. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    I forgot to add....the Firearms Aquisition Certificate (licence) will still be required and handgun ownership will still be restricted and subject to the same provisions under the law as before. Just the long gun registry will be scrapped if the bill becomes law....until such time as a Liberal government is elected...and re-introduces even more restrictive legislation IMHO.

    FYI, handguns have been restricted in Canada since 1935 (no carry permits other than for law enforcment and armoured car guards) and we have had the FAC since Jan.1/ 1979. Firearms legislation is federal and applies equally to all provinces and territories.
     
  5. twopipe

    twopipe Member

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    Round 1 for us ! Wendy is "appalled "
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It's a start. You Candians, like us Americans, did not get into this oppression overnight, and we're not going to get out of it overnight either. One step at a time.
     
  7. Don Steele

    Don Steele Well-Known Member

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    Mike,
    Just a curiosity here...When you had your friend Russel pick up a flat of shells FOR YOU...isn't that a "straw-man" purchase..?? At first reading...your story appears to be that your friend was intentionally making a purchase which you ( at least at the that moment...) were not qualified to make. By delivering the shells to you,it might seem to some that you and he were conspiring to get around the law. Sure, it's a LOAD OF B.S....BUT... Firearm control laws are full of opportunites for zealous prosecutors to "create" cases to make headlines, and generate publicity.
    Best Wishes to all our Canadian friends, and GOOD LUCK in your ongoing struggle for freedom..!!!
     
  8. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Don, This is similar to Mike's and won't answer your question fully. A couple of years ago when in New Brunswick bird hunting I asked to buy a couple of boxes of shells at a hardware store in Sussex. I had my non resident hunting license on me but needed my 60 day gun permit which was in the car. Rather than make me go get the paperwork they sold the ammo to my hunting companion, a local resident. There is no paperwork filled out or records kept of who buys what, the law only requires that you show the needed FAC card. Here in Mass. we need to show a FID or LTC in order to purchase any ammo, and I mean any. Hope that helps your understanding of some of the different laws out there. Shoot often while we can, Bob
     
  9. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Don I would have to agree with you on first blush would look like a straw man purchase. But as Russel bought them and brought them to me at the club about 5 kliks from the Wallymart-- and I shot them on the range as if he loaded the shells for me or whatever ---and I reembursed him for his cost----as Bob said its a crock --the club secratery says who is Russel--they don't have any shells to sell because of the ffen paper work envovled /required.....if you think thats bad--if I told you the ammunition laws here in Israel you would throw up----for one no reloading allowed no way/no how......MIKE
     
  10. Don Steele

    Don Steele Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Mike. I'm glad your situation wasn't one that could land you in trouble. I've travelled to a few interesting places in the world myself. I can say with confidence...my fellow Americans have NO IDEA how really BAD things can get for shooters if they've never been anywhere else. I've tried to explain these realities to my fellow shooters for over 25 yrs. NOTHING makes me more angry and frustrated than when I hear Trapshooters, or any clay bird shooters for that matter....acquiesce to the latest "common sense" gun control measures initiated by our ENEMIES.
    There's NO SUCH THING as "common sense" gun control..let alone AMMUNITION CONTROL..!!
    Good Luck over there. I've wanted to visit Israel for many years...and still hope to make it someday.
     
  11. twopipe

    twopipe Member

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    guy with a license buys ammo and gives it to a guy without a license, doesn't sound too legal to me. Can't believe you would put that on the internet ! Here's one for you Americans, I'm visiting in the US and a fellow takes me trapshooting, can I borrow the gun & ammo and shoot a few rounds ? LEGALLY ?
     
  12. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    <blockquote>twopipe: <i> ... Here's one for you Americans, I'm visiting in the US and a fellow takes me trapshooting, can I borrow the gun & ammo and shoot a few rounds ? LEGALLY ? </i></blockquote>

    Sure and absolutely, and, a few places excepted: MA, NJ, IL ... You can buy all the ammo you wish, OTC & w/o grief.

    Kudos to Mr. Harper, BTW ....


    Bob
     
  13. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Bob (goatskin) was about to ask that.....but a bit more in depth...to whit.

    A lot of Canadians at the Grand/Sparta ---no problem buying shells at Gamliels on site--DO GAMIELS REQUIRE ID FOR SHELL PURCASE ?. But if you were to go to Wallyworld can you purchase shells being an alien and A -given no FOID card ?or are we back to the " straw man" situation...OR MAYBE ATA MEMBERSHIP CARD ENOUGH.........MIKE
     
  14. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    mike: Ammo sales on-campus at Sparta was a written exception to the IL FOID laws.

    Wallyworld in Sparta advertised they would sell shells on the basis of an ATA card, but, in practice, they sold shells to anybody that was over 18 and didn't have tattoos showing above his tee-shirt.


    Bob
     
  15. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Shawn and all. I knew that there was not a problem for non US shooters attending shoots in the states and shell purchases....but never heard it spelled out as such.

    When I was at the Florida Chain Shoots in 1987 --of course there was no problems but today post 9/11 who knows. Always think of the story of Ehud Barak being body searched at JFK --or the little old lady pushing a walker .

    PC is alive and well. MIKE
     
  16. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    A Canadian or any other visitor to the U.S. may purchase ammunition if in possession of a stateside hunting license (any state) and/or an ATF Form 6NIA.

    Even though authorized to purchase ammunition, the only ammunition they can depart the U.S. with (export) is unfired ammunition that was listed on there ATF Form 6NIA (temporary import permit).

    In other words, if they are given ammunition, win ammunition, or purchase ammunition, they cannot take the ammunition out of the U.S. without first getting a U.S. export permit (FFL Required).

    For a Canadian who obtains ammunition in the U.S. they have to hope to not be stopped at a U.S. Border Patrol checkpoint prior to reaching the border.

    I ran into six checkpoints this year when heading into Quebec and I'm an American.

    Three were set up at the border. U.S customs set up cones and diverted traffic into the U.S. Border station, checking vehicles prior to them entering Canada. The other three were about 10 - 20 miles south of the border, checking vehicles heading north, one was on an east/west road.

    Those are the rules, even if not always enforced at all levels....

    -----------------------
    -----------------------


    Non Immigrant Aliens Purchasing Firearms and Ammunition in the United States

    ATF Publication 5300.18

    Revised May 2005ATF Publication 5300.18

    Revised May 2005

    A nonimmigrant alien generally MAY NOT purchase ammunition from an FFL or a non licensee to possess in the United States. If you violate this
    prohibition, you could receive a maximum of 10 years of imprisonment.

    THIS PROHIBITION APPLIES UNLESS YOU ESTABLISH THAT YOU:

    Were admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or are in possession of a valid hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States.

    If you meet these criteria, you are eligible to purchase ammunition to possess in the United States. However, you MAY NOT take the ammunition with you when you leave the United States unless:

    1. For ammunition for sporting shotguns, you have an FFL export the ammunition. The FFL must obtain an export license from the Department
    of Commerce prior to exportation.

    2. For ammunition for firearms other than sporting shotguns, you have an FFL registered with the Department of State, Office of Defense Trade Controls (ODTC), export the ammunition. The FFL must obtain an export license from the ODTC prior to exportation.

    http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/p5300_18.pdf

    ----------------

    The rules for visiting the US with a firearm...

    http://www.losttarget.com/form6.html
     
  17. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Ok Joe fair enough. You are saying with proper export paper work an American or other can take shotshells to Canada to a shoot ,lets say. Any objection for Canada customs when declared.

    Now the collary when Canadians gotto states to a shoot driving or by air what are the hoops invovled then. All retorical but am interested. Been posted many times on shotguns but ammo -- never had explained.....MIKE
     
  18. mike-israel

    mike-israel TS Member

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    Shawn---GEEZ WHAT A KICK--saw your post of course AND KNEW FROM RUSS YOU MOVED TO ALBERTA--BUT FOR some reason the penny didn't drop .Old age slows you down and the synapsis don't snap.

    How are you and fill me in a bit on whats going on with you. See that you have gotten the trap bug.

    Most important --had my brother Jack try to conntact Russ i.e tel number --for some reason he couldn't, thought your Dad had moved. Whats Russ now 71-72. Was 3 years Oct --went back for my moms funeral--your dad was there for me. Jack and I went to vermont and on way back---Went to Kittery Trading Post --in maine--for me ablast.

    Email me at col1@hamadia.org.il if you have MSN mesanger I have a/v --
    columbus200@hotmail.com

    What a hoot to meet up on trapshooters......SHALOM MIKE
     
  19. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Shawn, They could probably tell from the lot numbers and markings on the boxes and cartons. Bill Malcolm
     
  20. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    BTW, I have heard reports that Homeland Security is staking out Gun Shops in MI and stopping Ontario plated vehicles and checking for "illegal" purchases. I haven't heard of anyone being charged yet. Bill Malcolm
     
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