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Can you REALLY keep your insurance under Bamacare?

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by crusha, Sep 9, 2009.

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  1. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I don't see how you can.

    If the Gov't. system is going to continue to insure older (high-cost) patients at the same level Medicare does now - plus take on another 30 million people who pay mostly little or no taxes - how can it afford _not_ to force "profitable" young, healthy people into the system? If those "profitable" people are allowed to stay out of the Gov't. system, how can the Gov't. system ever be financially sustainable?

    It doesn't add up. They simply HAVE to force you into it, somehow, or the whole thing goes bust.

    Obama is making a big speech tonight, no doubt designed to ensure middle class people that you can "KEEP YOUR INSURANCE IF YOU WANT TO." But I just don't see how it's possible.


    Am I missing something?
     
  2. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    NO!

    Two words

    Post Office!

    enough said!
     
  3. dcb_wvu

    dcb_wvu Member

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    Here's another perspective, I am a small business owner, why on God's green Earth would I continue to provide healthcare to my employees if there is a relatively no cost option out there? Our health insurance sucks and will continue to do so until we reach about $6M in annual revenue; you need well over 30 people to get a good deal. Our insurance in insanely expensive and the deductibles are very high ($3K each, so $6K per family). We will simply move to the lowest cost option as I see no benefit in paying more.

    Let's talk about the root cause and that is what is worth discussing. Why is health care so expensive, why the defensive posture of medicine (a ton of tests before a diagnosisor treatment regime is prescribed)? Could it be tort reform? Perhaps we should not be able sue the doctor or hospital for everything that is wrong with us? Hmmm, being responsible for one's own actions, what a concept!!! But nahhhh, being the victim is easier!
     
  4. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    Simple answer. Obama is very carefully parsing his words. No, the government will not "force" you to buy the government insurance option. But (and it is really the crux of the issue), the health care plans as written, will force private insurance companies to "meet certain (unspecified) government standards, which in turn will cost private companies and make it impossible for many to continue to exist. Further, insurance companies, after a certain (again, not specified) date, will not be able to enrol any new customers. So, when your company goes out of business, you will only be able to enter the government program. In addition, many employers will not be able to meet many of the government rules, so will be forced to drop their health plans, and since other private insurance cannot enrol new members, again, where can you go? Answer, to the government plan. So, technically, Obama can claim the government will not "force" anyone out of a plan they like, but in reality, within a couple of years, there will be only the government plan, so the truth is, yes you will have the plan you now have taken away from you.

    Something else almost never mentioned is that Obamacare, as now written, will not take effect until 2013!! So why the great urgency to pass it now? We are told that we must have health reform in order to save the economy. But if it does not start for 4 more years, how can it help the economy now? And if it does not do that, then why the urgency to pass it now, without debate, or even reading the bills? Simple answer, again, is that so-called health care reform, really does not have a lot to do with health care. What it does do, is extend government control over a very large part of your life (and death) and that is the real reason Obama and the libtards want it now, before people can wake up to what they are trying to do.

    Jim R
     
  5. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    buzzy, why would you want to keep your private insurance, when you could have an all caring, benevolent, cover everything policy from the government? And it will be free!

    I don't know why everybody is scared of government health care. It will be cheaper because the government doesn't have to make a profit like the greedy insurance companies. And there is no reason the quality won't be just as good under government direction. Why just look at government housing, I was just driving by the projects this morning and........ Oh crap!!!

    Forget what I just wrote above. I don't want to move into the projects. We're screwed, again.
     
  6. laura!

    laura! Member

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    dcb wvu, I agree everyone should be responsible for their own actions INCLUDING doctors and hospitals. Torte reform? Lets reform the whole medical accountability side first. No doubt there are frivolous law suits out there, however there are more legitimate cases that don't get any press cause they're aren't very interesting. As a consumer, I find it frustrating that I really can't get any relevant information on doctors or hospitals. I can get more information about a $500 washing machine than I can on the people who are going to end up costing me $10,000 for a medical procedure. If a doctor is bad enough to lose his/her privileges at a hospital, he can just pick up and move and continue practicing medicine - no real accountability there.

    Now if litigation lawyers lose a lawsuit and had to pay half the legal fees of the defense, that would end frivolous lawsuits for all time!
     
  7. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    But, just think, if we had Obamacare it would created 800,000 jobs. This is not counting all the new funeral homes that would spring up.
     
  8. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    One thing to remember when dealing with these politicians.

    There will usually, and it is so in this case, be a number of different bills submitted all dealing with the one issue. This is true for this "health care" as in most any other controversial issue. Even if people realize the multiple bills exist they think that the bills are the same, or so close as to be the same. This is NOT TRUE.

    When someone questions some particular part of a proposed piece of legislation and makes some claim about how bad this or that part is, the side favoring the idea being proposed will be able to pull out a copy, figuratively speaking, and say "Look for yourself. What you are saying is not a part of the bill." And lo and behold, it will not be in the bill they pull out to show you (and to make it look like you do not know what you are talking about).

    BUT, the bad part will be hidden in one of the other "camouflage" bills. They are so named because their purpose is to hide the most objectionable parts from general scrutiny. When it comes time to pass and sign a final bill, guess what will be included. Hint, if you say the part that was so bad that "It is not in the bill." will somehow magically appear.

    So, don't trust any politician who may try to convince you that the opponents are all wrong and don't know what they are talking about. Subterfuge is a politician's main way of doing business.

    Say, isn't that what is now being said by some guy living in public, no rent, housing, at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington, D.C.?
     
  9. Uncle Screech

    Uncle Screech Member

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    As I understand it now, technically "YES" is the answer. If a business does NOT continue to offer private insurance they will be fined, (read that as taxed some more). However, those "fines" will be less than the cost of the insurance so most small business owners will opt to pay the fine and not offer insurance to their employees. At that point the employees will have a choice, get their own insurance (cost is prohibitive for all but the richest of us) or go on the public plan.

    Short version, technically yes you can keep your insurance. In reality, no, you will not have that option.

    And Mr. President? Bite me.
     
  10. over/under

    over/under Member

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    Hello????? Do you think anyone in DC can correctly answer that questin? Just ask your Senator or Congrssman who wrote the bill?
     
  11. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

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    I can. The answer is no.

    The only beneficiaries of Obamacare that I can think of are the poor and the uninsurable. They will be helped, but there are much cheaper ways of solving this problem that don't require the government's control over 1/6th of our economy.

    Everybody else is going to hate it, including me. Small business owners won't save anything - we can move to the "cheaper" government plan, but there will be an employer tax one way or the other. And we'll still have to manage the paperwork. Young people who prefer to self-insure will either pay for government care or pay the IRS a serious penalty with their tax returns. You WILL belong to ObamaCare in 10 years if this crap sandwich passes into law.

    Old people like most of us are the ones that will be really hurt. It won't be Sarah Palin's "death panels", but there is no way that health care rationing will not be the end result. None. Anyone who tells us otherwise, including Obama himself, is lying. It will be gradual, it will be well-intended, and it will be inevitable.

    And the $1.6 Trillion estimated by the CBO will be just the starting point. Who's going to run it all? In the UK, the NHS is the nation's largest employer, with 1.4 million employees, the third largest workforce in the world, after the Red Chinese Army and the Indian National Railway. It's the largest budget item in their economy. We're going to add 40 million uninsured and it won't cost us anything? And Obama says it's going to be "revenue neutral"? That's not even a clever lie. It's a cynical joke designed to pass the bill. The estimates will change, like the deficit, unemployment rates, and the "green shoots" of economic recovery. As slick as Obama is on the stump, you would think he would be a less transparent liar.

    I want no part of it. My bullshit meter is pegged.
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Tort Reform. Sure. It's the lynchpin of the high costs. I know of a case where the lawyer got 56 thousand and the victim got 5 thousand.

    Lawyers are the reason the malpractice insurance costs 200 thousand a year.

    But no one wants to take on the trial lawyers. (It's Washington, D. C., you know. chock full of lawyers.)

    Nothing will work till they get that knot unsnarled. The Malpractice demon is why they overdiagnose and do a gazillion tests, too. (to avoid suits.)

    Very few politicians show any affinity for tort reform. Kudos to those who do.

    HM
     
  13. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Jimrich,

    You make a good point...why wait so many years to phase it in?

    My guess is, because it doesn't save money, it COSTS money, and he doesn't want the fiscal impact to hit until he's safely into his second term.

    After all, we wouldn't want another chugging, massive, unstoppable Government debt bomb to threaten his chances at re-election, would we?
     
  14. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    If there is a public option your employer will stop offering insurance and pay the penalty instead. The government will "allow" you to keep your current insurance, which, unfortunately for you, will no longer exist.

    Hmmm... Government "help" backfiring... Doesn't this sound a bit familiar? Back in the '70s, and before, there was this cool thing called "a pension" -- every decent company had to offer a retirement plan in order to attract and keep decent employees. But then the government decided to "help" us with a brilliant idea called a 401K. It was a tax-sheltered way to save for your own retirement and companies were encouraged to match a portion of what you saved. Everyone thought it was great, and I mean everyone. But about five minutes after the government "helped" us, every business in America realized they could cancel their pension plans and stick all the money right in their pocket instead. Now, other than teachers and a few trades, almost nobody gets a pension. And the first thing thousands of companies did this year when the economy went south was cancel their 401K match -- and many of them did it while earning record profits. The government's brainless 401K debacle destroyed pensions in this country and nearly every worker is worse off for it today. That's what happens when government "helps" people.

    -Gary
     
  15. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    Hey NO ONE answered the question. DO YOU GET TO KEEP YOUR INSURANCE. The answer is till 2018. Then the gov takes all over. YOU need to READ THE BS that is in the HR 3200 that was written by MR Os appollo friends. If you dont have Insurence by 2013 you will not be able to get any except the gov plan. at 2018 ALL private plans will be gov owned. DO YOU SEE WHERE THIS IS HEADED? that is why there are so many of us that want this stopped
     
  16. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    How can you tell when President B.H Obama is lying? Yup you knew it.....his lips are moving!
     
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