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Can you read target breaks? - Entries are closed

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by trap4ever, Dec 7, 2012.

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  1. trap4ever

    trap4ever Member

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    Entries are closed and the answers and winners will be the subject of a new thread.


    There are two extreme camps in the target-break-reading debate. One faction is content to just go on reading their breaks for information about where the shot-cloud was in relation to a particular target and pitying those who don’t make use of that most basic, immediate, and useful form of feedback. The second group is equally convinced that it can’t be done at all; it’s no more than a misleading, albeit compelling, illusion. “If people want to pursue this sort of thing in private I suppose we have to let them,” they think, “but when they are, often unbidden, feeding make-believe information to people who would improve their shooting faster without them, they should be stopped and the sooner the better.”

    We doubt there is much hope reconciling the two ends of the spectrum of belief in target-break reading, but there is a vast group of “users-but-not-addicts” who dabble in it now and then, believing that while no one claims the system is perfect, the bit of help a well-read break can sometimes give you may be just the hint you need to tune up your gun-handling mid-event and help you run the rest of them out.

    This post and its linked videos are intended to help that middle group decide whether the occasional use of target-break reading is good, bad, or just a harmless way to spice up an otherwise long day.

    At last we all can try “reading breaks” in an organized and objective way and pit our own skill against the experts who now, finally, also have a way to prove to others what they can do. A few minutes of on-line time is all it takes and there is a valuable prize for the best performance.

    Grand Prize is a pure silver Commemorative Coin struck for the 2012 Grand American,


    trap4ever_2008_030312.jpg



    No matter where you stand on this issue you owe it to yourself to take part. Click the link above and join in the game!


    Neil and Kyra

    **** Use email address on conclusion page or above email for answers *******
     
  2. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Is that really you!!!!
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Welcome back Neil. I'm sorry to say that the format you have chosen makes reading the breaks most difficult if not imposible. Being at a right angle to the flight path of the target removes the ability to see vital information from the break. Without all available info the read would at best be an educated quess. HMB
     
  4. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    It is very difficult to view the placement of the shot when you are completely on the opposite of the shooter.
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense, HMB. People read breaks like this all the time. Besides, half the time you are not at a 28-degrees angle to the target (not 90, 28, just 28) but right behind the target's flight path. It looks like duck soup to us.

    We think that it's a completely fair test. We were careful to include hard breaks, skinny breaks, and those mid-way. No attempt at all has been made to "trick" skilled readers.

    We think everyone should play, whether you "believe in" target break reading or not.

    1. If you think you can read breaks, this is your chance to prove it.

    2. If you do a bit of it but are not really committed, this is your chance to decide whether even that is too much - or not enough, Maybe if you paid more attention your scores would really skyrocket.

    3. The Grand Prize, that pure silver coin, certainly is worth winning. Even if you are a total non-believer you should play anyway. You probably realize that if target-break-reading doesn't work at all then everyone has the same chance to win. Wouldn't it be great to show that handsome medal around the club and crow "And I never even watched the movies!"

    So let's get to it, TS.commers. Click the link, watch the videos, and enter the contest.

    Neil
     
  6. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

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    Certainly what I saw in the introduction is a view far different from what I see when I shoot. If this is intended to allow a spectator to gain an appreciation the finer points of a master's shooting technique, it may be very interesting. But If this is intended to assist a shooter in interpreting his own breaks, it would be far more useful to see the break from the shooter's perspective, i.e., with the camera placed directly behind (and perhaps above) the shooter's head.

    Ted K.
     
  7. TjayE

    TjayE Member

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    Welcome back Neil. Tom E
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Well sure, Ted, but then it wouldn't be a test, would it? This isn't "intended to assist the shooter in interpreting his own breaks;" it's a test of people's ability to read _other peoples's_ breaks. Or read breaks from the bench. Or a different post. Any of that stuff you see all the time.

    The "assistance for shooters in interpreting their own breaks" videos are due in a couple of weeks and it will not only be worth watching, it will really be "of assistance." Keep tuned for it, It's exactly what you are asking for.

    But first we have to see what the general success rate of second-party viewing is. Rather than wishing the test was different, why not just take this one? At least you will find out if you can read other peoples' breaks!

    Neil
     
  9. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    HMB is right, even though the angle of sight is much less than 90 degrees. Of course that assumes that target break reading is possible. JRM
     
  10. perazziuser

    perazziuser Active Member

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    One: Centered, Above, Left, Low, C, High, H, H, Left, Low

    Two: Behind, C, A, C, Behind, C, H, B, C, C

    Tie Breaker: Low & Behind

    Jeff Holguin
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, thank you, thank you, thank you. We finally get a player!

    Your entry will be pooled with the others and you may win. Good luck!

    Neil
     
  12. Dr A C Jones

    Dr A C Jones Member

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    I would have been first but I foolishly wrote down R, H, L, L, C, etc, and then realised that "L" for "Low" and "L" for left wasn't the smartest recording method!

    Anyway, here goes (and I don't want to lead anyone who follows, because, as some will recall, I do have form with break-reading):

    1. High.

    2. High.

    3. Right.

    4. Low.

    5. Centred.

    6. High.

    7. Right.

    8. Left.

    9. Low.

    10. High.

    11. Low.

    12. Left (behind).

    13. High.

    14. High.

    15. Right (front).

    16. Centred.

    17. Left (front).

    18. Low.

    19. Left (front).

    20. Left (front).

    Tiebreaker. Right.

    You may as well post me the silver coin so I get it in time for Christmas.

    Andrew.

    (edit: Added "front" and "behind" to the L and Rs and response to the tiebreaker (not that I need it))
     
  13. BD457

    BD457 Member

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    I've only had time to watch the first video so I'll post that and then edit tomorrow for the rest. I just want everybody to have a chance to copy my answers ;-)

    1) bottom, left, right, top, straight
    left, bottom, right, top, center

    2) left, center, left, straight, top, straight, under, in front, straight, straight

    tie breaker: above (just because....)


    accepting offers for the silver coin now, just PM me.

    Mike
     
  14. Ken Brandt

    Ken Brandt Active Member

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    You have about as much chance of getting this right as hitting the lottery, but as they say someone has to win. lol

    1 through 5, center, right, left, left, center

    2 through 10, above, right, left, under, right

    11 through 15, left, center, left, center, under

    16 through 20, center, right, left, center,left

    Tiebreaker, left.

    thanks Neil

    Ken
     
  15. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    I read my breaks by feel, I usually know if I blow the shot when I pull the trigger and why, visual target impact just confirms.

    But we all have those "mystery" moments.
     
  16. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    1-5: Center, Right, Above, Below, Center

    6-10: Right, Above, Left, Right, Right

    11-15: Behind, Center, Above, Center, Below

    16-20: Ahead, Above, Below, Ahead, Center

    Tiebreaker: Behind
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Shannon, I think you approach this as many do; the break just "confirms" what you thought anyway. I myself get that impression when I really smoke a target, My thoughts is something line "Dead Center!" And the confirming thought which follows is "YES!!"

    But that doesn't tell us about how a less-than-dead-center visual break "confirms" what you thought. Are you talking about the pieces going right, or left, or up, or down or something else? Can you give us an example of "Why" and what the break "confirms".

    Neil
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, Scott. I should think that your pal Joe, really _knowing_ where he shoots (using a red dot) , should be able to max this,

    Tell him about it; let's hope he plays since more than anyone he's seen the real sequelae of shots he _knows_ the placing of relative to the target.

    Neil
     
  19. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    OK, I'll play. I'm not sure I'm using the correct perspective. Since this is about telling a shooter where he is hitting, all my answers are from the shooter's perspective. So, an answer of Left means left as the shooter sees it and so forth.

    1. Center- Lots of tiny pieces.<br>
    2. Above- First hit on top of leading edge.<br>
    3. Left- First hit on left, big piece to the right.<br>
    4. Low- Pieces seem to go up.<br>
    5. Center- As Mr. Kiner would say, "Good Smoke!"<br>
    6. Above- First hit seems to be on top.<br>
    7. Low- First hit in the middle of the trailing edge and big pieces.<br>
    8. Left- First hit on left.<br>
    9. Left- First hit on left.<br>
    10. Right- First hit on right.<br>
    11. Right- First hit on right.<br>
    12. Center- First hit in the middle.<br>
    13. Above- First hit high.<br>
    14. Center- Couldn't discern the first hit. Lots of pieces.<br>
    15. Low- First hit low and not many pieces.<br>
    16. Left- First hit on the left.<br>
    17. High- First hit on top.<br>
    18. Left- First hit on left.<br>
    19. Right- First hit on right.<br>
    20. Above- First hit on top.<br>
    Tie Breaker: Left- First and only hit on left side.


    I should note that I am an admitted target reader, but not like this. If the target completely disappears, it was centered. Anything else was not. As far as I'm concerned, unless I can actually see the shot cloud (and even then it's iffy), you cannot resolve shot cloud placement with 6" of resolution.

    For those that say they read targets, but that the angle is wrong in these videos, I have a question. Do you read other peoples targets in order to help them improve? If you do, when you do, do you always stand right behind them? I ask because I have people tell me all the time where I hit a particular target when they are standing 4 stations away, or more, from me.

    Doug Pilcher
     
  20. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    Oh yeah, I just wanted to add something.

    While I believe this is more random than not, my cat really enjoyed the videos. :)
     
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