1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Can someone explain this?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by markdenis, Mar 4, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    This statement is included in Frank Rively's, ATA Executive Director, brief explanation of rules governing the $1000,000 donation.

    "There will be minimum target attainment levels to be met which will be determined in the near future."

    Does anyone know what this means?

    Mark Rounds
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    It means you have to have shot a certain number of targets in order to qualify to shoot for the $100,000.

    My guess is that they are seeking to limit this to long time trapshooters and not someone from another shotgun game with the requisite skills suddenly or recently joining ATA for a chance at the money.
     
  3. crusha

    crusha TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,762
    What it means is, the only people eligible will be the approx. 1,900 who were already going anyway (and as long as they buy factory shells, ATA will be happy as a clam).


    Net effect, zero.
     
  4. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    Brian

    Could be I guess, but doesn't the ATA already have target requirements in place to cover your suggestion?

    Mark
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Beats me. I don't have an ATA rulebook. If they do, then this would be to narrow the field even more.
     
  6. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    Maybe it is an attempt to try and stop this:

    Last 10 handicap scores before the Grand:

    82

    85

    81

    79

    83

    85

    80

    78

    81

    77

    100 - Grand American

    Mark
     
  7. TNCoach

    TNCoach Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    579
    I'll have to dig up last years program (or let Neil answer it) but all major (AA) shoots have penalty yardage at classification which is usually 25 yard line, but in this case there could be a minimum bird requirement just to shoot for the cash i.e. you can win the trophy, but not the money unless you have 2k cap targets.

    We had a guy have a fit over not being able to shoot at the 27 yard line. I know for a fact that he had been working hard on the 27 yard angles and expected to shoot his perceived yardage.

    He withdrew and left...
    TNCoach
     
  8. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    MARKDENIS have you noticed Neil not giving any input? I think Frank Rively is going to modify the rules, which would have been hard to do if we were still Life Members w/voting. They can now do whatever they want, our voices mean nothing. We need to vote out all the EC members and start fresh w/ shooters in mind, if you notice it is people w/money running things now. Not in the good ole days of Vic Reindeers time. I bet he is turning over in his grave.

    Frank Rively is not performing to his statement in Trap & Field Looks like we got another Carson Woods at the Helm. He cost us dearly, loss of Budweiser, Addl costs for food vendors, and we got poor State Fair Foods, the loss of good Sandwiches because he wanted a percentage of the profits plus ground rental.

    Just watch and see the attendance of the Grand this year. A dollar to a donut it is going down at least another 15%.

    Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  9. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,915
    Gary Longshorts spewing his normal venom and displaying his ignorance. Mr. Good Dr., I defy you to show me a better steak sandwich priced as reasonably as you get at Sparta, the home made ice cream with a little cobbler for a chaser was good too. My best day shooting was 2 sandwiches followed with 2 oeach cobblers with ice cream. If I can't shoot like Leo, I can at least enjoy eating as well.(LOL)

    marcdenis, when you think of what's being offered, what's to prevent me as a top bunker shooter or you as the best sporting clays shooter worldwide entering the shoot. We would be penalized to the 25 yard line for lack of registerd targets presently. No penalty for the talents that we have. More than factory shells for fairness, you'd really have to look at putting you and me at the 27 yard and open to everyone, or if the donor/ATA are looking to keep it within the regular trap shooters, then you are going to come up with a minimum target requirement.

    A GREAT DONATION, deeply appreciated, but you can see some of the issues that come into consideration.

    Best of luck to all. Shoot often while we can, Bob
     
  10. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,353
    Location:
    Indiana
    Bob, I think Gary was refering to the one year of Vandalia when the food arrangement was "modified"
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Gary Bryant - At one time, many years ago, life members did have a vote in real property disposition. This question clearly does not involve real property. A member of the EC can be voted out by his zone delegates after serving one year. If he is elected the second year, he becomes tenured and will remain on the EC for four more years. Please read the rules before making suggestions that are counter to the rules and by-laws.

    Neil is no longer a member of the EC. Frank R. works for the EC but is not directly involved in decisions like this one. Most members of the EC read threads on this site but do not post anything. After reading several of the posts, such as the one you made above, I understand their reluctance to post anything.

    I do agree in part with your comments about a former marketing director, but they do not apply to Frank R.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    Mr. Ireland

    Do you know what the intent of Rively's statement is?

    Mark
     
  13. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,915
    Mark, I wouldn't have any better idea than you do. My guess is that my comment to you above is in the right area. Don't you think Digweed and a pile of others would be looking at this pay-out? Put him on the 25??

    Again, a GREAT donation, but a pile of responsibility on a hand full of people to try and do the "right thing". Glad it's not my problem. Good luck to all, Bob
     
  14. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    Bob

    No, not really. Digweed and plenty of other great all around great shotgun shooters have always had the opportunity to compete with trapshooters at many shoots that pay good money...more in the past of course, but these great non-trapshooting people have not sprung up overnight. They have been shooting for many years.

    Missouri's tax free calcutta has paid close to or more than the donation by the Martins after taxes. There have been numerous big money shoots around the U.S. from time, and I haven't heard of any of them winning or even participating. They have their own shoots to attend.

    Just my opinion of course.

    Mark
     
  15. TNCoach

    TNCoach Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    579
    Mark,

    It's just a matter of revising the classification system. If you currently shoot registered targets don't worry about it. I would just get a lot birds in before the Grand, if you want a chance to win the cash.

    I think you could see shooters from other disciplines throw their hat in for the day for that money, but there's hope even Wendell Cherry isn't used to the miss and out found at the GAH. If you don't do something to prevent it, he will be there...and others.

    My 2 Cents,
    TNCoach
     
  16. jwells

    jwells Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    191
    i have read this website for a long time and i cant remember any one thing that has raised such a fury as this 100,000 gift to the ata. you may love the idaea or you might hate it but it has and will spark an interest in trapshooting. if you dont like it, why would you piss on the martins parade? just dont shoot that week. or pony up some money or prizes and put your spin on it. but dont attempt to ruin a great jesture by these people over something as trivial as shooing new shells, or what yardline you will stand on saturday night. be honest with yourself when you think you really have a chance at winning an event in the program not alone the big bonus........
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    Mr Hawks I think you are wasting your time trying to get the idea across. That the rule just might be to try to make sure that what you say doesn't happen.

    In the mind of the person that you are talking to someone from another discipline wouldn't waste their time. By taking advantage of a loophole in the rules. After all they are above reproach you understand.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Mark- I would never speculate about the intent of another. After reading the posts, he may even believe his announcement was a mistake. I hope to get the opportunity to talk with Frank and several EC members in about one week.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    Thanks, Pat

    I know you have the opportunity to speak to many ATA officials on a regular basis unlike most that follow this forum. And I guess "intent" was not the correct term. I was only interested in what the "minimum target attainment levels" actually meant.

    The reason for my question was to tell several juniors who have asked me if they can shoot for the money too!

    Mark
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,850
    Mark, it means what it says. It's written in English in a straightforward declarative sentence, with only the passive voice to detract from its clarity, but required in this case.

    Here's the problem which has faced us every year. The Grand allows "targets-only" entries for at least some competitors (maybe all; it changes now and then.) As targets-only, even if you don't have the target minimums, you shoot from your usual handicap yardage, not the penalty-25 which would normally apply. Such persons are not eligible for options, trophies, added money. But they have been, if the sponsor of a particular shoot-off wants it, eligible for some of the special gun or money shoot-offs. For example, I recall a particular sponsor who did want everyone eligible, so that's the way it was run.

    My personal opinion was, though it no longer counts for much, that the whole targets-only thing was a complication that should never have been considered on the first place. In the class events it makes no sense at all, and in the handicap, in these "special" shoot-offs, what's the justice in letting someone shoot-off from the 20 against a legit penalty-25 shooter just because he hasn't shot enough targets this year? Isn't that rewarding someone for just what we don't want to encourage, that is, not shooting at other places?

    Neil
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.