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can some explain pattern in relationship to fps

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by knutershooter, May 12, 2011.

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  1. knutershooter

    knutershooter Member

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    I am told that a slower fps load will hold a tighter pattern, can someone explian that to me and how that works?

    Would it make more sense to use a more open choke with a slower load?

    Thanks!
     
  2. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    The questions you are asking are subjective, not objective. There are no hard and fast conclusive answers. As a generality slower loads have less set back on ignition and therefore don't dimple the shot as much, resulting in rounder shot that flies straighter and patterns tighter. At trap shooting distances you would be hard pressed (get it?) to see a practical difference between 1100 FPS and 1290 FPS.
     
  3. knutershooter

    knutershooter Member

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    what about from 1000 to 1150? Are we talking inches
     
  4. MMcVitty

    MMcVitty Member

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    Best thing to do would be to pattern your specific gun and choke combination with the different speed loads if possible. This will tell you how your gun reacts with it as well as give you an idea of where the pattern is hitting.
     
  5. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Knut, As you are talking about reloads here, if your talking speeds below 1145 fps. I too say take your loads and pattern them yourself with the different chokes you would like to use and see which ones your gun and barrel like over the others. Only way for you to know for sure. You might try some one ounce loads as well. Good Luck and Break-em all. Jeff
     
  6. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Back in the 1970's I was advised to shoot 3 dram 8's on the 16 yard line as they opened up quicker. The 2 3/4 dram 7 1/2 load was for the back fence as they held a tighter pattern. The 3 1/4 dram 1 oz load was called a "donut load" as the 1290 fps velocity caused the shot to move to the outside of the pattern and leave a weak soft spot in the center. The 3 dram Federal Paper 7 1/2 load was the games shooter's favorite for the 1st shot at whatever distance.

    That being said, and with today's harder shot, better wads, over bored barrels and a wide variety of chokes, you need to pattern your load in the specific barrel that you shoot with.

    As to my own personal opinion, I like to shoot 1 1/8 oz. loads at "extra-lite" velocity of around 1125 fps. The recoil is not excessive and the targets break nicely, even from behind the 27 yard line.

    Ed Ward
     
  7. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    knutershooter, I used to do a LOT of patterning. Some guns have fussy barrels and you never know what load they will like. Other guns have "good" barrels and digest anything you feed them.

    For good barrels, it doesn't seem to make any difference in overall PE for trap loads between 1100fps and 1235fps. I don't shoot anything faster than that except for bunker, and that's a whole other story. I have noticed patterns tighten considerably at velocities lower than 1050fps.
     
  8. knutershooter

    knutershooter Member

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    I had my 16 yard load chronographed at 999 to 1003 fps and breaking good scores with an improved mod choke, the guy that chronographed them said they are nice shooting and he thought if anything I could open the choke up even to a light mod.

    Taking in all the advice I certainly plan to pattern them again and with different chokes. They are just such nice shooting shells that I hate to change much.

    I thought maybe someone had a scientific explaination of how it works with slower and faster speeds, one would think that a faster load would stay more together making a tighter pattern and a slower load would spread out more.
     
  9. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Unfortunately they are no hard n fast rules to the outcome of a given load. Many now say that it doesn't matter what you do as all will be the same! But I have to ask that if your doing well with your present combo, why would you want to change? Do you really think that you miss close enough that a light mod will get you a target?
     
  10. knutershooter

    knutershooter Member

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    Oh no not at all, I was just looking for some more consistancy of the break itself and I want the best pattern I can get with what I got. I would assume everyone here does. I wasn't looking to change anything at all, but curious if someone had an explaination of how the speed affected the pattern, more for personal knowledge than changing what I am doing.
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The most important factor has been totally missed by the posters above. It is called the sound barrier. When the shot string passes through the sound barrier it encounters turbulance. This increases the size of the pattern.

    Sub sonic loads will pattern tighter. The shot string can encounter this turbulance as it decelerates while traveling to the target. Your best bet for a tight pattern is to shoot a load that is sub sonic(1080 fps) when it leaves the barrel. HMB
     
  12. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    HMB, he states above that his loads are around the 1000fps area. If so that is what you are discussing that everyone ignored. Also he is evidently not looking to tighten his patterns but rather open them up without powder drop change as he states above.
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    knutershooter, 1080 is not subsonic in all conditions. The speed of sound is contingent on temperature, humidity and altitude. Your 1000fps shells are going to be subsonic in almost all cases. With slow shells, I doubt you;ll see a big difference between Mod and LM. If you are smoking them with Mod, stay with it. You will gain nothing my going to LM. If you are not smoking them with Mod using slow shells for singles, check your POI. If it's correct for you, go to IM.
     
  14. racer

    racer TS Member

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    If I understood Dr AC's book correctly- shot pattern and speed are not very subjective. If I remember correctly, statistically there was no real correlation between speed and pattern spread. I can re-read that chapter and report back if interested. Maybe the author will chime in on his own. :) Dan
     
  15. Beretta Young Gun

    Beretta Young Gun Active Member

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    I think alot of you are missing the really big factor that has the biggest effect on a pattern. PRESSURE. In my own experiance loads with lower pressure (slower loads), hold a much tighter pattern. as you increase pressure by adding more powder and speeding up your shell, then you also increase your pattern size. This is just my expriance. BYG
     
  16. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Imperfect pellets are unstable in flight. This instability is exacerbated by increased velocity (aerodynamic effect) through air.
     
  17. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Mostly good advice. I'd go with what pheasantmaster said.
     
  18. st8shuter

    st8shuter TS Member

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    the english where light years ahead when it came to patterning and barrel regulation. Again each barrel and gun was regulated often to the customers particular load. that being said they knew early on about what is optimum for pattern performance. They believed in what was referred to as a square load ideally the shot coloum was as high as it was wide. this theory was expanded with regards to shot velocity as well. This is why we find our 1oz 12ga loads crush targets more often than our 1 1/8 hcp loads. Also why our 28ga field gun hits game harder than our 12.They believed that all great things would happen at 1100fps. Any faster than that and the pros regulating the choke couldnt guarantee predictable pattern performance at any distance.(blowing the pattern) Check out holland and holland's the shooting field for more info
     
  19. racer

    racer TS Member

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    St8shuter- the first part of your response sounds like it is out of a sales brochure for a gun maker. With the advent of increasingly better technology it is often surprising how good some "old" data really was. It also never seems to change some of the myths that were never supported with data. I've never owned a 28 guage- I assume the pellets come out at some fps just like a 12 guage(?) Dan
     
  20. st8shuter

    st8shuter TS Member

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    never having read a gunmakers brochure perhaps im in the wrong line of work, should have been a gun salesman, i have bought and sold quite a few.
    inestigate the square load, somethings in this world just work for some reasons. the square load theory is that the pattern/shot charge is delivered not only more uniformly but also simulataneously ie shorter shot string.thus the appearance of hitting game harder (fewer deformed pellets/less bore friction. Most of this was done prior to the advent of the shot cup, see balanced shotgun loads (gary hubbel)
     
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