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Can Rio hulls be reloaded?--Blue hulls.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DENNISMASTROLIA1, Mar 12, 2010.

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  1. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Would some one please let me know if RIO hulls can be safely re-loaded. I have not heard or seen any thing definitive on this.Thank -you. Dennis Mastrolia.
     
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Lots of people seem to reload them without problems. I won't consider them as reloadable myself. I have seen MANY basewad migrations in these hulls. I haven't seen one exit the hull, but many of them are halfway up the hull or better. This has been discussed here many times before and I have posted pictures of some examples. That is my personal opinion based on what I have seen and encountered myself. Some people won't shoot or reload AA's because of some "rumours" without much evidence. I have seen the basewad migrations in the UEE manufactured hulls and have had contact with the manufacturer on the issue. Their response was troubling in the least. My recommendation is to find something else to load. I wouldn't throw away good components on these hulls. Have a look and decide for yourself.

    <a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h79/nospoda/?action=view&current=Kemen4.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h79/nospoda/?action=view&current=Kemen3.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h79/nospoda/?action=view&current=Kemen2.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h79/nospoda/?action=view&current=Kemen1.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h79/nospoda/?action=view&current=IMG_0138cropped.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  3. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    First reaction is: "Why Bother?" with so many other good hulls to reload (Remington, for certain). Shotgun Sports current issue (April 2010) has an article on reloading Rios along with reloading data. Regards, Ed
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering why someone would publish data that uses a wad that isn't available to American consumers?

    ClayBuster is supposed to have developed an improved 12S3 clone with an enlarged over-powder cup that will work in Rio hulls, but there will be no data for these unless someone spends their own money to run some.

    MK
     
  5. $$$SHTR

    $$$SHTR Member

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    Claybuster does make a couple of wads for this type of shell. The 6100-12 (1 oz), and 6118-12 (1 1/2 oz) with loading data in each bag. I've loaded these hulls with these wads and they work fine. I usually only load them once for doubles and chuck them. If you are going to load the imports, make life easy for yourself and re-size ( Mec super-sizer) them before you try to load them. The metal is so thin, the face of the hull will give under rim style re-sizing pressures.

    Tomas
     
  6. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    I have loaded thousands of them along with Wolf shells and a few other of the same design...no problems at all as long as I use a wad designed for straight wall hulls for consistent ignition.

    Mark
     
  7. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Yes absolutely I load 2 loads in them 1st is 1 3/16ths # 6s with 26 grains of 800-X, w/ windjammer wad, and Rio Primer, for second shot in buddy shoots as a back-up load.

    I also load them w/ 19 grains of Promo 1 1/8th oz 7 1/2s, windjammer wad, Rio Primer and then throw them away, hull is still good, will reload more.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  8. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine did some testing of the new Claybuster clones of Federal wads especially to determine their fit in Rio hulls, with Claybuster furnishing the wads for that purpose. Apparently, there were problems with gas leaking past the overpowder skirting of their older Federal-style wads. If this Sunday's weather permits shooting, he is going to give me one each of the old and new wads and a cut-down Rio hull so I can see how much tighter the new wad fits. He also says he will give me several boxes of reloaded hulls. Supposedly, the change in the wads will be a running production improvement and the new larger wads will function normally in Federal hulls, but he has the beginning lot numbers of the new size.

    One reason powder companies hesitate to publish loading data for Rio hulls is that the size of their primers makes the primer pockets too large for our 209 primers and the brisance of Rio primers is all over the range of SAAMI specifications, making them risky to use in hot reloads, possibly like Gary's. That is not heresay or shooter speculative opinion - it was proven in powder company labratory testing. But my friend tells me he has loaded Rios with Fiocchi primers with no fit problems.

    The basewad migration risk, no matter how remote it might be, will keep me from shooting any of those shells in my guns. Whatever savings might result from using those hulls certainly aren't worth the risk.

    Ed
     
  9. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

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    Dennis,

    I have reloaded several hundred with 1 oz of shot for sporting clays to shuck out of my pumpgun or my girlfriend lets them fly out of her 391. I only reload them once as a throw away hull. Nobel primers work and don't fall out in fact seat so hard that some times it indents the base upward/inward. Fiocchis work pretty good but can come loose with a good jolt. I have used the Claybuster 6100 and the 12SO copies. In cold weather I have gotten some blooper sounding ones that I blame on the hull. Some of the Rio hulls seem to be thicker than others. I have used 22.5 grains of American Select and 18.9 grains of Nitro 100. At the last sporting clay shoot that I went to in February, when it was cold, Rio hulls reloaded with Nitro sounded weak and it looked like I dumped a pepper shaker down the barrel, after the shot.

    Could have been the hull thickness, Nobel primer or wad not sealing properly in the cold? In warm weather, they have performed very well. They will give you a workout on a PW reloader though.

    John E.
     
  10. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I load them with 12SO and Windjammer wads, depending on the amount of shot. I use the Rio primer, and have loaded drums of them.

    Have not noticed base was migration.
     
  11. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    The Helarco wad is made inTampa ,Fl. It's not a import. It's a great wad. Have reloaded 1000's of the Rio/Kemen hulls without probems. Base wad migration is not a probelm if you reload on a Mec as it will reseat the wad if it has moved. I loade once and chuck. Have bags of them waiting to be reloaded.

    Tom
     
  12. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Thank you all for the reply-I have Noble primers and have Clay Dot powder---Do I need any particular wad for the reloads?Or is one wad better suited than another.Thanks---Dennis.
     
  13. dolphin62

    dolphin62 Member

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    i wouldn't bother...go to any gun club and get remington gun club or game loads and reload them. there are usually many in the trash.
     
  14. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    On the RIO hull my 800-X loads pressures ar less than 9300psi

    I try to keep all loading pressures 10,000psi or less for good ignition and performance.

    The RIO PRIMER w/their large flash hole makes igniting slow burning powders better.

    Longshot is a slow burning powder and my reloads are 10,000psi max, my NITRO 27 hull with 1 1/8th oz #6s Windjammer Wad and 35.3 10,000psi is 1530fps
    The RIO primer is close to the Winchester Primer, not quite as hot.

    My friend is getting bloopers w/12S3 Clone wads pretty frequently in a Federal
    Smoothie seems the wad is loose in the hull.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  15. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Dennis, go with the wads that Shooting Coach uses. He know these hulls very well. The Rio's hulls are Cheddite's so follow loads with that hull. Your primers and powder will work fine. Remember the Rio's are a 6 point crimp so you'll need to look into that. Good Luck and Break-em all. Jeff Oh Yeh, As Quack Shot noted these hulls have a seperate Base so make sure you load-um up with a Mec or simular reloader that seats the primer with a tube from the inside of the hull to reseat this base when loading.
     
  16. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    At ranges in my area, the secret is out about Gun Clubs and other Remmy hulls. About the only thing one can find discarded is Diana, Rios, Nobels, and a few B&P hulls. Clay cartridge hulls abound, but those with very high brass do not work well in the Mec 9000's sizer.

    After many moons loading, I have gone exclusively to Solo 1000 and Solo 1250. I understand 1250 may be discontinued. :^( It seems to be the best Caps powder I have used, and is similar to Unique. Green Dot never rang my bell. With most loads, pressures seem very close to Red Line.

    Bulky powders, along with wads made for straight walled hulls, work great, and with moderate pressures. I prefer to load to over 8,500 PSI, but shy away from any load in a fired hull that exceeds 10,000 PSI. The factory often loads to over 10,000 PSI, BUT THEY ARE USING NEW HULLS. I am loading fired hulls that may have been fired in an over sized chamber, and the brass head may be weakened by resizing it to fit the tight chambers on my Brownings.

    Also, the legendary powder, Red Dot, has been around since Noah built the Ark with a trap machine on the stern. I have no doubt he loaded Red Dot. LOL
     
  17. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    After 100 once fired were given to me, I promptly inspected them for base-wad migration. 21 of the 100 had slightly, to 3/8" base-wad migration. I will not touch another once fired with a 10 ft pole.
     
  18. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Thank you all--A wealth of information--Thanks again.Dennis.
     
  19. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I resurrected this thread to post something relevant to it that I saw with my own eyes yesterday. In an earlier post, I mentioned a friend who is high on reloading Rio hulls and actually did some testing of wads for them for Claybuster. He did come to that club Sunday a week ago with some loaded shells but forgot to bring along the wads and cutaway hulls. He wanted me to shoot with him using those shells but I politely declined, stating my fear of the basewad situation.

    He discarded that as strictly unfounded hearsay, even when I told him of the photographic evidence posted here and told him of the poster finding 21 of 100 hulls having basewad migration. Another shooter who is also using them agreed with my friend.

    Well, yesterday they both were at that club shooting and I scored their second squad. Before we started, my friend jokingly said that he was surprised I would stand that close to shooters using such unsafe shells. When they finished, the other shooter started cutting his empty hulls down the side. He only cut two hulls because he found the basewad of the second one about 3/8" off the bottom of the hull. "Ed's right," he said before throwing them all in the trash can. My friend didn't say anything and left soon afterward.

    So I can honestly say that Rio hull basewads DO migrate. That may not be a problem as long as your loader reseats them AND if they stay in the hull. It's that "if" that worries me.

    Ed
     
  20. checker

    checker Member

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    Looking for 2 K Rio or other oversize 209 primers. Bang Boom
     
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