1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Can different wads open or tighten patterns

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by riflegunbuilder, Jan 29, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. riflegunbuilder

    riflegunbuilder Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    359
    I am interested in 1 1/8oz loads @ approx 1175 in STS hulls. Can the type wads, changing to Blue Duster from WJ etc open or tighten pattern if no other compents are changed?
     
  2. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,222
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    Can you give me a data-based example. Alf? What two wads will give different - more or less open -patterns, one from another, and how much? How do you know?

    zzt told us told there would be a huge difference in one particular circumstance. The patterns with 12S0 and 7/8 oz from sst hulls and some certain powder were predicted to be "superb" while those with a WW Gray wad , we were told, "sucked."

    When ten patterns from each were compared, there was no difference at all.

    Neil
     
  4. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,446
    When all the hype about Windjammer came about a number of years ago. I patterned them and a handful of other brands at 40 yards. In that handful of other brands were Blue Dusters. I did it the old fashion way, shooting 10 of each and counting the pellet in every pattern. The percentage showed no special trend for any of them. Not even the non split shotcup type, as advertised, would give you a tighter pattern at extended yardage. It just didn't happen.

    Ajax
     
  5. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Yes

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    yes


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,002
    I have found with lots of patterns, (some posted on here) and keeping the choke constriction the same, the velocity of the shot will have a greater influence on patterns than a wad. Of course, choke constriction has the greatest effect on patterns. Wayne
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    If I cut a few notches in the over powder section of any wad it will result in a very tight pattern. All pattern work must be done close to the barrel because the shot will only go about 10 yards, but it is tight.

    There is another way with Claybuster Wads and AA hulls to get a pattern almost 100% at 65 yards. Pheasantmaster (Martin W.) is an old Kansas boy and I am sure he also knows how to do this also.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,457
    Location:
    SE PA
    Once again, Neil is mischaracterizing what I've said. I did say 7/8oz patterns from my gun were superb using the 12S0 wad in STS hulls. I also said patterns from the WAA12L wad sucked, or some words to that effect. On the several times I've mentioned this, I was talking about the distribution of pellets, the evenness of the pattern or the number holes in them. I was not talking about the size of the pattern, or the PE. That is what Neil measured. Knowing that each load patterns at say 70% PE in a 30" circle tells you nothing about how even the patterns are.
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    How do you measure evenness, zzt? You also made predictions about the interior ballistics of the two setups which were dead wrong too.

    Neil
     
  11. shadow

    shadow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,445
    YEP ! If you dont think so compare patterns shot with the old overpowder wads with a filler wad and no shotcup. Not nearly so even and tight as with todays stuff.
     
  12. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    In my opinion the short answer to your question is yes. The long answer would have to include among other things, pressure and or gas leakage into the shot column by a particular brand or type of wad upon combustion, using the appropriate or in appropriate wad for a particular case, a pattern control wad with a center post, wad types such as shadow pointed out, and of course the actual amount of difference caused by any of the above.

    I suspect it is more a subject to talk about than be concerned about.
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Absolutely

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  14. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Wads that have the petals not slit to bottom of shot cup tend to pattern tighter, One examble is the Remington SP-12 wads, I use these in hulls w/tall base such as remington All Americans, and also using a bulky powder in a AA HS or just plain AA hull. The old Pattern Control Wads were another wad w/un slit
    shot cup. There are several other wads that do not come to mind. Some were the Herters wads of years ago.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  15. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,893
    Pat, Pheasant master isn't the only one. I was shown that trick years ago by a young guide in NB. It was what they used to shoot a deer illegally in bird season. I remember one day at the club and a few of us got talking about it and there was a doubter. Took out my jacknife, made the aproppiate alteration to my Blue Magic shell and shot the top of the 10 yd pipe from about the 23 yd line or so. Even surprised me, so I'm sure they would work. Pheasant master may have tried it on a larger target, I wouldn't know. Shoot often while we can, Bob
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Bob- The load is useful on the prairie when hunting ducks from a blind and a coyote hops up 70 yards away. A pattern of 6 inches at 70 yards is tight.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. birddog1964

    birddog1964 TS Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    466
    Pat,

    Would you post a pic of wad with the notches cut so I can see what you are speaking of, please.

    thanks
    lee
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Lee- My post describing notches in the over powder part of the wad will give you a blooper, but it will have a tight pattern because the shot will not make it past the house.

    The second method I mentioned that will give a very tight pattern involves cutting the hull just above the powder. The wad,shot and part of the hull leave the barrel as one unit. It works. I have done it. It is possibly safe most of the time. I will kill a coyote at 70 yards, even with #8 shot. I am not interested in doing it again.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,893
    WOW!! I think this is the first time I can understand completely and agree with Pat's post! LOL, Stay warm, Bob
     
  20. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,859
    Got to keep the pressure up in a .800 bore The Versalite wad works well in warm weather with 25.5 grains of Unique in a Remington hull.. The Noble wads tend to work better for all around use in the .800 bore.. Real cold weather.. you'll be better off with a standard..or under .740 bore.. That was the main reason I quit shooting the .800 Now.. my .753 has been flawless with everything..all the time..

    As far as the other wad question.. At under 1200 fps.. not alot matters.. Better quality shot will do more to improve a pattern than a wad.. BUT.. get to 1300/1400 and a whole new world opens up.. The floor of the wad.. does play a more important part at this velocity..The amount of radius comes into play.. as well as the leg section of the wad.. If you can visualize a wad.. that the center is deeply concave..there is more shot in the center than on the fringes.. That continues..to some degree at all ranges..

    Years ago.. an inverted PGS was used on top of a fiber wad to get much of the performance we see today with plastic wads..again.. a simple way to create a concave floor.. The plastic shot wrapper reduced pellet deformation going down the barrel..

    Now.. does any of this matter in ATA.. NO..a simple change of chokes would yield a much greater improvment at the ranges we shoot ATA.. Now.. from the parking lot.. That's a whole different story..

    I suggest anyone really interested in wads.. and what they do.. and how they work..see Kevin at Downrange at the GRAND this year.. He is the all knowing..He lives wads..to a point of major shell manufacturers calling upon him for his advice..both in the manufacturing aspects and the ballistic aspects of wads.. He was also kind enough to point out.. one of my super duper.. long range shells could be quite unsafe..and requested I no longer consider them.. I cheerfully removed that from my load book..(It was based on a pressure spike that was altered due to wad design and the use of lead in steel wads)..

    Again..All Good.. Hit'em all and see you at the GRAND.. Mike
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

tight pattern long range wads

,

tight shot pattern from wad

,

wad influence on shot patern

,

willcutting off the petals on my wads open up the pattern