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Calling Loss Birds Dead

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by BigBilll, Oct 2, 2008.

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  1. BigBilll

    BigBilll TS Member

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    What should you do when the puller calls a loss bird dead ? I was at a shoot with some friends and after the first post the puller called all 5's I turned around and said I missed the fourth bird out.The second station one of the other shooters clearly missed a target and the puller called all 5's noboady said anything after that I asked the puller are you watching the targets.I don't mind calling my targets but what do you do when it happens to a squad mate ?
     
  2. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    Any shooter that fails to correct a scorer in such an occassion is only cheating themselves. I have asked scorers if they saw a piece of one of my targets when I question a break. If they answer yes, I take their evaluation if they are not sure, I tell them to mark it lost. And never call your own lost targets as dead..if a squad mate sees a piece thank them for watching.

    Big Jack
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If a squad mate hits a bird and the scorer calls it lost, we should correct the call. We should do the same thing is the target is lost and the scorer calls it dead. When I think I have missed a bird that the scorer has called dead, I question the call and my squad mates often agree with me that the bird was lost.

    I would be very displeased if I would win a trophy because a scorer gave me a bird I did not break.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. cls

    cls Member

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    I have to agree with the two replies above. Except that if I see a chip come off a target I shot at and the scorer called it lost, I'll politely ask my squad mates if they saw anything. If nobody did so be it, but I have found on more than one occasion a squad mate saw a chip but didn't speak up until asked. Even more than one on the same squad. I see no problem with this. I'll never argue, I'll simply ask. In turn I'll always question a bird I've shot at that's called dead when I don't see anything come off of it. I've watched many not do so and take all the freebies they can get. The only consolation is that they are seldom good shooters. cls
     
  5. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Scorers seem to be young and less than enthusiastic. So thme calling lost birds as dead or dead birds lost is no suprize. Correct the scoreer either way for your self and or a squad mate.
     
  6. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I'm with Jack, Pat, and cls....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  7. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Years ago, I'm giving away my age, scorers would sometimes call dead bird. I was 14 at the time and never saw a chip. I believe they were calling dead bird when the target didn't break but was dusted. Can someone tell me how they made the dead bird call?

    Robert
     
  8. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    My philosophy on this matter is pretty much the same as Richard Colleys & the others.

    I might also add........many times it's difficult to hear the scorer calling "lost" amidst the din of the calling and shooting from adjacent traps and I might wait 'til the scorer calls out the scores at the post change to question him (or her)? If then he calls me "5" and I'm pretty sure I missed one, I'll ask him if he thinks he saw a chip on that target? If he says he did......I'll let it stand. If he gives me one of them "duh----ah---mmmm" looks, I'll say "I'm pretty sure I missed it if you would please mark it Lost"

    If it happens to a squadmate I won't say anything unless I'm asked, then I'll call it like I saw it. If a squadmate takes a freebie that he knows he didn't deserve that's between him and his concience.

    Unlike some of these other guys, if the occasional occasaion arises when I TOTALLY SMASH a target and the scorer calls it "lost".......yeah, I'll turn around and question the call.

    John C. Saubak
     
  9. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    If the puller calls all lost targets Lost loud enough and if there is a small chip or piece from one that he can see and calls it Dead Target , thats all you can ask for . Questioning a target by respectable shooters is quite OK in my book . Taking a lost target as dead is frowned upon at our club . Happened once to me in a club shoot and I`ll never forgive the person who took the target where a shootoff would have been the deciding winner . He and his son knew he missed it but the puller never called it lost . I came in second place and probably would have also in a shootoff , but at least give me that chance .
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    It's a hard call many times when a shooter did not see their target break they think it is lost. In fact the situation happens all to often: never question your misses unless you know that there was no way you could have broken the target.

    Other shooters it's up to the consensious of the squad. The scorer has final say and they are in a much better position to see small chips.

    Always call a dead target when the scorer calls loss and you see a piece.

    I see many targets scored losses that were dead targets much fewer the other way around.

    In the old days when tips were common it was the other way around. At times could buy a good score.

    Joe
     
  11. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    Asking the puller "if they saw a chip" is the way to score a hit on missed birds. I know a PP of the ATA that uses this method and 99% of the time the pullers says "yes". When someone misses a bird and the puller calls it "dead" the squad should correct the miss-scored target. The squad should watch all shots and make sure they are scored correctly. I have had to "take birds away" several times in NY & Sparta this year and I have seen others take birds they did not break in NY @ home grounds & in Sparta.

    EE Bornman
     
  12. ZELMO1

    ZELMO1 TS Member

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    If you hit em you should get em. If you miss, don't beg. I called a lost bird on myself in Pa a few years ago. It was on my 19th post. It "cost" me a hdcp win. I was asked after our last post why I did it. I told him that I shoot for myself and not for trophies. I won my class in the doubles and a few more that week. I was rewarded for my honesty and I sleep fine. Break targets, not the rules. Al
     
  13. cls

    cls Member

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    Good point Jerry...

    I once saw an inexperienced scorer (her first time) at a big shoot at a big range (40 traps) who was seeing wads and calling them chips. NOBODY was missing ANYTHING... We gave her a quick lesson and all was good. cls
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Lots of times I see the scorer call lost and look down to enter it on the score sheet. The bird is still in the air and a piece flies off while he is looking at the score sheet. HMB
     
  15. TjayE

    TjayE Member

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    I have a question on WHEN to correct the scorer's error.

    Do you correct the scorekeeper immediately after your shot, or do you wait until it is time to change to the next position? I have done it both ways. It seem to interrupt the squad to call the lost target immediately. If you wait until you change to the next position, your squadmates do not remember the exact target you are referring to (we are Veteran and Sr Veteran shooters and short on memory). I want the scores to be right, but I do not want to distract the other shooters on my squad. Comments please. Tom
     
  16. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Tom,

    My comment; the sooner, the better.........when memories are still fresh.

    Normally if the scorer calls "lost" when the bird was broken, it can be settled immediatly after the shot and before shooting resumes. Often when a shooter is credited with a hit in error, since the dead birds are not called it isn't caught until the scores are read out at the post change.

    Yes, whenever it's done it can be distracting........the only solution to that would be to have scorers that know what they're doing and then forbid the contestants to even SPEAK to the scorer while the event is in progress.

    John C. Saubak
     
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