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Calif. sheriff may revoke fed enforcement power

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Brian in Oregon, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Out of control feds don't want citizens to have guns on forest land. I hope this sheriff presses this problem fully home.

    PLACERVILLE (CBS13) — The fight that has the El Dorado County sheriff planning to revoke a federal agency’s enforcement power in his county is apparently over residents’ rights to carry guns.

    Cory Ward is an avid outdoorsman who frequents the El Dorado National forest. But he’s concerned this paradise could turn into a police state.

    “I have felt intimidated,” he said.

    He’s got a long list of complaints against federal officers who patrol the forest.

    “They want to know what you’re doing here, where you’re going, do you have any firearms on board.”

    It appears this exploding confrontation between Sheriff John D’Agostini and the U.S. Forest service may come down to guns, and the right to carry them, and whether U.S. citizens are allowed to bring them onto federal land.

    The sheriff’s department says they’ve received more than 50 complaints from people just out enjoying the woods when they were stopped by an overly aggressive forest service officer.

    Some of these experiences have been posted on Internet chat rooms with people demanding the sheriff get involved.

    And last week, he pulled the federal officers’ powers to enforce state laws in his jurisdiction, effective July 22.

    A U.S. Forest Service spokesman said the agency met with the sheriff Wednesday to try and work out their differences.

    “It hasn’t happened anywhere else in this state,” said John Heil. “We hope that the relationship will continue and we will look for ways to improve.”

    But as for Cory, he just wants to enjoy the forest without fearing the feds.

    “This is your land, this is my land, this is everybody’s land,” he said, “And we don’t want to come here anymore.”

    The forest service said it will affect the seven forest service officers who patrol the area, though they’ll still be able to enforce federal laws and restrictions.
     
  2. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Wow. The seeds of civil war are beginning to sprout.
     
  3. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Wow sounds like the same mentality that is here in WA! Add to that the National Parks employees too!!

    They are definitely birds of a feather, The indoctrination has worked pretty well, I would say!!
     
  4. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    These feds are typical. They don't really have anything to do. So they intrude on people who aren't hurting anybody in order to justify their worthless lives. The fact that there are Forest Agents in the first place is ridiculous. A person can hardly go anywhere without their privacy being imposed upon by some over zealous agent of some government agency wanting to tell them where they can go and what they can do.


    I have been hunting less and less because so much ground has been declared protected habitat by one agency or another. Hunting used to be a chance to spend sometime alone with nature. Now they've herded all the hunters into small areas. Between imposing on other hunters and being imposed upon by game wardens or foresters hunting has lost a lot of its appeal. Hunting has become more worry than fun.


    Darr
     
  5. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    I agree totally with Darr. It used to be dove hunting in the valley was my escape from the forest goons. Any more even that isn't worth the trouble.
     
  6. blackfoot

    blackfoot Member

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    The lamp is going to be lit soon!
     
  7. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    <!DOCTYPE html>
    <html>
    <body>


    I would rather encounter a sworn U.S. Citizen law enforcement officer who is a prick vs. an illegal alien cartel member armed with grenades, and other arms...


    </body>
    </html>




    We can't forget the other side of the story in which the above link is one of many documenting violent cartel members setting up shop in our forests. These cartel members are armed and have murdered hikers, etc... that have "accidentally stumbled" across the grow operations on U.S. soil.

    Yes cops can be jerks, however, the forests are still safer with armed law enforcement patrolling vs. one family for example, with a couple rifles, etc. Without law enforcement patrolling the mountain/ forest, etc., property, it would be like Mexico. No sane person would think they would be safe hiking in a remote area of Mexico with a couple rifles and handguns carried by their wife and say a teenage daughter and a 8 year old son!

    Our borders are not sealed, both political parties are at fault, but regardless, the danger is real and to not have state and federal law enforcement patrolling state and federal park land makes less sense than not securing the border to being with! Even if the border is secured, what about home-grown drug dealers that set up shop on state and federal property.

    Remember the song COPPERHEAD ROAD talking about making moonshine? That song is probably 20 years old and the lyrics talk about setting up booby traps. Guess what, booby traps don't care if the person is wearing a badge, booby traps kill and mame regardless of age or reason for being in the area.

    Without a law enforcement presence, our state and federal lands will be completely unsafe to take our wives and children to camp, hike, fish, hunt, etc.

    And some will complain about the article I posted... those that know me know that I am as pro second amendment/ NRA as it gets, so if you don't like that article do your own research. Fact is that armed illegal aliens who are violent cartel members have invaded our forests and BLM lands and will kill anyone who jeopardizes their cash crops to include innocent civilians.
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well that's all fine and dandy, but the cops are not harassing "violent cartel members setting up shop in our forests". They're harassing ordinary, law-abiding citizens who own firearms. That's a big difference. And if these cops cannot see the difference, then they need to resign or be fired and more competent ones hired.
     
  9. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    I would like to actually know the details before casting judgment based upon a news story about seven forest service officers receiving over fifty complaints.

    The fifty complaints are over what span of time? Two weeks, two years, 5 years?

    How many thousands of visitors does the park receive a week, month, year?

    There is more to this story and I suspect there could possibly be political motivation behind taking away the forest officers authority to enforce traffic laws.
     
  10. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    It is the age old argument whether one would trade safety for freedom. I for one think the freedom lost is never again found. The pendulum has swung way too far to the left.

    By the way BNO, that was a perfect take. Most cops are descent humans. Having said that, there are many who have no discretionary powers. Many cops who would rather take the easy way out and mess with a non threatening citizen instead of doing the tough and dangerous work that would truly make us safer. The numbers of these bad cops is not insignificant.


    Darr
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that these kind of cops - all out of proportion to their numbers - give all cops a bad name.

    Police work is often a thankless job. And it's good that people stand up for cops.

    But, let's not let appreciation for the good cops become an excuse to turn a blind eye to those who truly need to be criticized.

    There would be no need to criticize cops at all if the bad ones were weeded out and some policies that have led to the deaths of innocents are changed. And THAT is the point of the criticism. To effect change.
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    noknock1, as for wanting more details, time line, etc., you've overlooked a very important point. The local SHERIFF feels there is enough justification to get involved and act. Are you criticizing his actions as kneejerk?
     
  13. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    I hunt in National Forest lands in California, and it's not just in El Dorado county that these shenanigans are going on. We have been harrassed in camp grounds, had our vehicles searched and our guns inspected, all under the guise of looking for illegal game. This has been going on for years. Most of the Rangers have been rude, as well. I think the end game is to discourage hunting.
     
  14. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sad state of affairs when a person can't legally carry a firearm in the woods. My thoughts on federal land is that it belongs to the people.
     
  15. Shooting Sailor

    Shooting Sailor Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like a situation my son was telling me about 2 weeks ago. According to one of his friends, it is one out of control individual who has caused the problems, not seven. From what my son's buddy was telling him, the guy is a power mad cop wannabe, who views ALL non-law-enforcement individuals as powerless criminals, who he can mistreat and abuse as he wishes. He is creating crimes on the spot, without any basis in law, and levying punishment on the spot, as well, usually in the form of fines in lieu of threatened confiscation. Firearms, quads, bikes, and side by sides are his favored items for threatening confiscation. There has been much discussion about him on other sites, apparently.
     
  16. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    I will not comment on whether the Sheriff's decision is knee-jerk because I don't have all the facts to give an educated opinion.

    But for fun I will play devils advocate, this guy is up for re-election next year. These 50 complaints probably were over the past 5 years or so averaging 1 complaint per 5000 positive or neutral encounters with park visitors.

    Right now it is popular to bash anything gun related and this is a relatively safe "political" move that will show the sheriff as standing up for the right's of his county's populace. So this really changes nothing, the rangers still have law enforcement authority, they are basically just losing the ability to enforce traffic code, issuing speeding tickets, arresting DUI drivers, etc...

    So the Sheriff is a hero and chalks up some points for his re-election campaign when in reality nothing changes. If these 7 Forest Rangers are racking up 50 complaints a week for harassing park visitors, then nothing changes, if these 7 officers still piss of 50 people out of 10,000 plus encounters, then nothing changes.


    So without all of the facts, my scenario is just as plausible as the version that has been painted thus far. I still say we need more facts before casting judgement.
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think you're overreaching on your analysis.
     
  18. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    You should see the park rangers up here in Alaska. They are dressed in military style gear. Right down to the jack boots.
     
  19. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    Maybe I am, however that is the problem with this story, that is the lack of information. The reporter wrote just enough to let readers "fill in the blanks" with their own attitudes based upon life experiences.

    A key fact is how and over what time frame did those fifty complaints accrue? Again, if they were in a very short period of time, then those very loose quote OFFICERS are abusing their authority and need canned. If these complaints were over a very long span with thousands of positive / neutral encounters in between, then this Sheriff is making a political point for personal gain IMO.

    Are the fifty complaints only relating to being harassed over the carriage of firearms? Or are the majority of the complaints with the rest just complaining because they felt they were not treated with respect by the Officers?

    I can't tell from that article, it would be especially worse if it were all seven officers that racked up the complaints over a couple month time frame vs. one or two bad apples. And again, any profession that deals directly with people are going to receive complaints, that is life. What matters is the time frame and context.

    We just had an official complaint filed a couple weeks ago by a convicted felon (conviction for drug trafficking and possession). One of our patrol officers pulled over a speeding vehicle with limo tint which is not allowed on the front windows in Indiana. The Officer smells marijuana and observes seeds and stems in the back seat. The Officer asks the driver to exit the car, (back up is on scene by now) gains consent from the driver to search the car, finds a handgun, learns from dispatch about the convicted felon's criminal history and later on finds over $12,000.00 cash. The felon is unemployed and could not even come up with a good lie for having that much cash. He went to jail and the small amount of weed recovered, the gun, and the cash were seized. The money was seized as proceeds from drug trafficking.

    The guy bonds out of jail, goes to the property room, demands his gun back and cash. The unemployed rocket scientist is given the form to file in order to request a civil hearing to get back his cash and gun. Bad guys gets mad, files a complaint. In the old days with this fact pattern, a supervisor would have taken the complaint and put it directly into the trash, however in today's world, that officer has a complaint in his file for a couple years assuming he doesn't receive another one. I doubt the guy requests a civil hearing, but he may be just that stupid, what does he have to lose?

    The point? People file complaints all the time, even if they are unwarranted... Just not enough information at this point for me with this article.

    However now if newspaper reporter files a FOIA and finds out that Officer X has received five complaints over the past year but no circumstances behind the complaints then Officer X looks like he abuses his power. Even though Officer X's last complaint about taking a gun was made by a felon who should not have possessed the gun in the first place.
     
  20. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    noknock, I would be raising hell too if the dang cops took my $12,000. It is none of their damn business where he got it, lessen he robbed a bank. All the cops wanna do is seize everything in sight to get money for the department. Seen it happen too many times.

    GneJ