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CA State Shoot, KGC, RWT & Gary Beer

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Flyfishing Dan, Dec 5, 2012.

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  1. Flyfishing Dan

    Flyfishing Dan Banned User Banned

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    RWT...

    I did some initial calculations and would like your input to tell me where my calculations are wrong. Please feel free to respond.

    Based on your statement in another thread alluding that $.21 per target thrown as offered by the CGSTA counter proposal was insufficient, I applied the numbers in the CGSTA counter offer and came up with the following results:
    $.o8 per target cost @ 135 per case = $10.80 per case (guaranteed by CGSTA, could be less)

    400,000 (which is more thrown than last year) targets divided by 135 per case = 2963 cases

    2963 cases x $10.80 per case = $32,000 target cost

    400,000 targets x $.21 per target = $84,000 target fee income

    $84,000 target fee income - $32,000 target cost = $52,000 profit

    42 puller/loaders x 8 hours x 6 days = 2016 pay hours

    2016 pay hours x $10 (which I believe is more than the help is paid) = $20,160 labor costs

    $52,000 target profit - $20,160 labor cost = $31,840 target profit

    PLUS

    $150 per RV x 100 = $15,000 (dry camping)

    $1000 per day for food, beverage & ice = $6000 (estimate)

    $250 per vendor x 10 = $2500

    Pre-Shoot, Practice Traps, Tee shirts = $5,000 (estimate)

    $31,840 +$15,000+$6000 +$2500 + $5000 = $60,340 net minus water and electricity.
    And since all RV’s dry camp, the water and electricity used shouldn’t amount to much.

    I believe the CGSTA provides the pat traps , voice calls, trap & voice call maintenance, target setting, line referees, medical personnel and shoot –off personnel. I believe these services are customarily supplied by the host club. Does Kingsburg credit the CGSTA towards a price reduction for providing the above equipment and services?
     
  2. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    TTT
     
  3. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    I am sure there are other expenses not included on this list. I am not sure how productive this is unless the information presented is complete and correct. Otherwise it can lead to false conclusions.
     
  4. Flyfishing Dan

    Flyfishing Dan Banned User Banned

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    Avaldes...

    As I stated in my initial thread, I was asking KGC and RWT to tell me if my calculations were right or wrong. Im no different than most of the shooters in CA as I enjoy KGC but when they ask for a flat $35k guarantee with no expenses other than to prepare the grounds, (which they would have to do anyway to keep the grounds as pristine as we ALL like them) it appears to be an unfair request.
     
  5. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    I've been reading these threads with interest, with no dog in the fight personally I can though relate what the Ohio State Trap Shooting Association does with the Cardinal Center.

    The first year at the Cardinal Center the OSTA rented the grounds, we did camping, vendors, hired the help, basically did it all. I can't remember the exact amounts here but the state association lost something between 50 and 70 thousand dollars on the shoot. Since then the OSTA and the Cardinal Center has had a deal where the OSTA is paid a fee per target thrown, around 3 or 4 cents per bird, not sure exact details, and the Cardinal Center does everything else from camping to help.

    This has been a win for the OSTA as we have made money every year since doing this, I guess Jack makes money as he seems happy with the deal, and the Ohio and non resident shooters that attend the Ohio State Shoot are happy because they get to shoot at the Cardinal Center. The OSTA makes more money off of daily fees also. We copied the Illinois Associations deal for their state shoot.

    Hope you get things resolved. The best Brad Dysinger
     
  6. RWT

    RWT Well-Known Member

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    Kingsburg & RWT

    Flyfishing Dan,

    Sorry didn't see your post yesterday, but I am not on the computer all day.

    In answer to some of your questions, we are a private for profit corporation and I am not at liberty to share all of our information, but some has already been on here, and I can answer some of the others.

    First if the net were anywhere close to 60K @ $.21 as your figures show we would be more than happy to do it, we have never made that amount, even when we were throwing over a million targets, now around 400,000.

    Targets- If we can get targets delivered to our club for 8 cents that would be a significant savings, and less than the 8.7 cents for 2012

    In 2010 targets were 6.6 cents

    in 2011 targets were 7 cents, last year 8.7 cents, so you can see they have increased considerably in the last 3 years. These prices are all delivered to the club.

    Labor-- Your per hour cost is pretty close, just a little low, after all taxes and insurance. We could not do the shoot with 42 personnell, maybe the CGSTA can and we are willing to give them that opportunity to show us how to do it. With your figures for labor of $21,160.00 that comes to about 5 cents per target, that hasn't happened since the mid 90s. In 2005-2006-2007-2008-2009-2010, our cost have always been around 8 cents per target +or-. In 2011 CGSTA changed thing at the last minute and our labor cost per target went to 11.4 cent per target. Last year our cost was 9.77 cents per target, so you can see the last two years have killed us.So even if it come back down to 8 cents that is $32,000.00.

    You are pretty close on the camping , vendors, pre shoot, practice and tee shirts, a little high on some and low on some. You are way off on food and drinks and ice to the positive side.

    Your net of $60,340.00 minus electricity and water? Our electric bill for the month of June is usually between $4000.00 and $5500.00 of which about 80% is used that week, and that will go up next year, so it is not insignificant. Just sitting here without the records in front of me I can think of another 12k in expenses just for that week, and there are more that I can't think of without the records. That does not include any expenses for the week preparing or the cleanup afterward.

    In answer to your second post, No we would not maintain the last 20 traps on the line because we only use them during the state shoot, and it is a major expense to water and mow, and maintain.

    Last year we did reimburse the CGSTA $4000.00 for trap maintenance, and $1000.00 for the 2060 shootoff targets. I am not sure what other state associations do, you can read Brad Dysinger post above for Ohio and there is another post above I beleive about Michigan.

    There has been a counter proposal presented to the CGSTA, that will be answered I am sure in the next few days.

    Robert
     
  7. BruceMich

    BruceMich TS Member

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    I have been reading with interest the conversations and remarks regarding the State Shoot at KGC. I am a new member at large there and have no vote regarding how or what the club decides and as best I can tell no voice or vote for what CGSTA decides. As a member at large I would just say that I would hate to see the State Shoot go elsewhere as I don't know of any other facilities in the State that can accomodate it as well as Kingsburg, especially if you happen think the centenial event would make a big difference in participation. I don't know if it will or not. What I do know is that as a member at large and knowing the individuals and officers at KGC they would like to see the event there too. Remember they are members of the CGSTA just like the others commenting on this debate. I'm with Robert as a member as well as Gary and our Pres. Scott we are all competitors, love the sport and want to see it survive. Our club or the CGSTA are not soley responsible for its survival or demise. If given a choice as a competitor I would rather see my club survive first and foremost. My club is the difference to me, not the CGSTA. There are many fine folks involved in the CGSTA that put forth a lot of time and effort to keep our sport alive and I appreciate and commend them for it, but make no mistake I am really happy that we have members and a board like we have at KGC who want to keep our club alive, solvent and well first and foremost. That may just be the reason that this discussion is even a discussion rather than just a move or a OK what ever you want. This is a sport that seems to be dying on the vine and has been for a long while. More prizes for more catagories has not and is not working. Giving more for less is a great thought, but it just doesn't work. Never has and probably never will. Don't be afraid to charge your price! CGSTA take a look and get realistic. KGC look after us and our club first the way you have been. If CGSTA can not be accomodated then let them go! If they can or think they can find a better deal so be it. If they are right they won't call back. If they are wrong they can come back without hanging their hat on there sleve and like in the past we'll be there to accomodate them. I hope this gets worked out in the end for the whole sport overall. Once again KGC boys I appreciate the job you are doing and the representation you are showing! Thank you!

    BM
     
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