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Buying without Trying

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by FLTarheel, Dec 27, 2010.

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  1. FLTarheel

    FLTarheel TS Member

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    Against my better judgement, I bought a shotgun over the internet. It was from a highly regarded advertiser on this site so I felt pretty good about it. I received the gun and checked it out visually and it appeared to be exactly what was represented. I was happy and felt that I got a fair deal.
    Over the next couple of weeks, I patterned the gun and could not get reasonable patterns beyond 35 yards. I had the bore measured and found that the Series I thinwall chokes were installed in a .725 (18.4) bore as is correct. Sometime after that, the barrels were bored to .736 up to the skirt of the thinwalls and then the bore steps back up to .725. I contacted Briley and they felt they might be able to install Series II chokes but I would have to send them the barrels for them to measure to determine the feasiability.
    I contacted the seller and he said the problem was between me and the Owner which wasn't him. The Owner said it was the sellers problem and besides, the gun shot well for him although he never patterned it. Neither would address the problem with the bore. They both just continued to tell me how well the owner could shoot the gun.
    I sent the barrels to Briley. After doing so, I removed the stock from the action to clean it and seal the stock. I found that the action is cracked in the radius behind the trigger, I called Giacomo to see if this was something I could just keep an eye on. Dan at Giacomo said absolutely not. It's a dangerous situation and I should send it to him for repair.
    Another email to the owner and the seller with results similar to the previous. Esentially I'm being told that I can send the gun back but they will not participate in the cost for repairs. If I send it back I'm out $500 to $600 dollars for the choke repair so I'm electing to have the crack repaired also.
    The issues with the gun could have been honest mistakes but I don't think much of the response.
     
  2. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    Tell us the co or people you bought the gun from. If you don't your thread is some what useless to us.
     
  3. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    if the seller disclosed all of the work that was done to the gun (e.g. backboring) then really it is caveat emptor. If you want a gun that you can send back to the factory to get the barrels adjusted if they don't pattern correctly, it's best to buy a factory new gun. Buying used, it is always caveat emptor.
     
  4. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    This thread has two directions. The title "Buying w/o trying" is something were all stuck with. All internet and local sales are buying w/o trying. Internet sales give either as is or a three day non-firing inspection. Now we get into the thread itself dealing with not as advertised problem. He found problems/defects after the sale and now is out some money. In fact I'm dealing with this situation right now. I bought a gun here on TS.com and it showed up at my FFL in a unfireable condition. Not as advertised. In my case the gun is out for repair and the seller is paying for the repair. Lucky me. Sorry for your situation. Dave T.
     
  5. Hunter1978

    Hunter1978 Member

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    I'm sorry your having trouble, but you state you found out the issues with the chokes/bore a couple of weeks latter. a 3-day inspection period is what is often offered. Besides did you ask the loads they were shooting. some guns pattern better with differnt loads. the step up choke isn't unheard of, some of the remington 11-87 trap barrels were that way and I know they are a little finiky with the load and a good pattern. I'd like to see the seller stand behind the cracked action (although for all they know it could have happened when you were shooting) but to ask for them to pay for work you elected to have done + your original purchase price is unreasonable. I know it sucks if it happens to you, but that is the chance you take on a used gun that you don't see in person. You wouldn't buy it over the internet if you could buy at near the same price locally. Personally I think most sellers on boards like this one are honest and will try to work with you if there is a problem. Good luck, hope your gun turns out ok, and wish you better luck next time.
     
  6. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    if (IF) you are going to buy guns on the net, be sure you have or have access to a bore mic. Some bbls will be marked as having had bbl work, but some not. So a bbl mic is important to have access to. Gary Bulley (THE UNLOADER)sells them here and they are nice units. I have handled a lot of Perazzis and have not seen the problem you encountered. But it makes sense to do a basic disassembly of the gun upon arrival. Too, Perazzi guns last a long time and the effects of recoil are accumulative and odd situations can occur. Fix the gun and move on or bite the bullet and send the gun back. The latter is a hell-of-an-offer after all this time has elapsed.
     
  7. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with jack, take the offer and move on
     
  8. FLTarheel

    FLTarheel TS Member

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    Thanks for the replies and thoughts most of which I have considered. I suppose my chief complaint is the lack of disclosure whether intentional or not and then not helping with the repairs once they were identified.
    The gun was represented as having been rebuilt and refinished by Giacomo. It was but almost 4 years ago. The entire transaction in hindsight just appears to me to be done with the attitude of: let me see if I can get someone to buy my problems. Once i get his money, too bad for him.
    Time to move on. I tend to trust people until they prove they can't be trusted. That causes me occasional heartaches but on the other hand, I've met a lot of good people that I trust.
     
  9. SMITH47

    SMITH47 Member

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    I ordered an engraved perazzi from a dealer with a 3 day inspection on the internet after many conversations. it arrived filthy with a non working ejector. it made me nervous feeling what else may be a problem so i returned it.

    there are three national dealers that i will deal with on the internet:

    1.Giacomo Sporting 2.Pacific Sporting 3. Paxton Arms

    i am sure there are many more but i can personally attest to these..

    ernie
     
  10. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Your barrel's bore and choke are not that unusual. As Hunter said, all overbored Remington "Target" barrels from the 1980s and 1990s were made like that. My son and I each have an 870TC with those barrels; his has a bore diameter of .733" and mine is .745" but both taper down to .727" at the choke threads.

    Also, I sent a KX-5 barrel to Stu Wright to have it opened from .730" to .745" and he did it the same way. The gun worked great and I would have no qualms about having another done like that. I think it is important that the taper match that of the choke and you have to remember that your barrel has a certain amount of "built-in choke" when selecting a choke tube for it but otherwise, it should be okay.

    As Jack said above and I said in a soon-to-be-published article on buying guns online, having a bore micrometer is a must when buying a used shotgun, particularly a target gun. As you know, we clay target shooters are prone to having our bores "improved." Other musts are a three-day inspection period and having a gunsmith perform a thorough inspection during that time.

    Ed
     
  11. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    1. Are the barrels still waiting at Briley?

    2. I dont see the issue with the backboring( all you would need are different choke constrictions to pattern what you wanted it to) Why would you think you needed a different series of chokes

    3. The "action is cracked in the radius behind the trigger" ?????????????? is that the tang you are talking about? or did you mean some inside radius?

    4. What did you pay for this gun. Was it a bargain?

    5. How long have you had it? and when do you think this radius cracked?

    6. Who is the seller by name- and did you ever ask if the bore had been changed ?

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  12. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    "caveat emptor..go cry someplace else. you foolishly agreed to the terms now abide by them.

    fred"

    That's our "sarge" - always there in support of his fellow shooters.

    Ed
     
  13. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Thank you for reminding me why I don't buy used guns via internet.
     
  14. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Well who was the seller and how long did you have the gun until you noticed this crack

    Do you think you caused the crack or was it there

    How much did you shoot it

    You still havent answered my question about why you thought you needed to change the series of chokes rather than just get different constrictions from what you had

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  15. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    A bunch of years ago I bought a set of O/U's from Doug and Dave Wolk. They were fixed choke barrels and supposed to be unaltered. I paid them their asking price and barrels were shipped to me.

    I shot the barrels for a couple of weeks and they just weren't performing for me. I borrowed a bore mic and found the chokes more open than either one of us thought.

    A simple phone call to Dave/Doug and explained what I found. They said no problem what did I want to do? Since they didn't have another set of barrels, a full refund was given to me a week later when we both were at the same shoot.

    I was fortunate enough that the barrels didn't need to be fitted, so I wasn't out any dough there. I will say that since then, I purchased a bore mic and check all barrels before buying a gun.

    ss
     
  16. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Please answer the questions
     
  17. SMITH47

    SMITH47 Member

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    GN7777777

    IT'S GOINA BE IN THE 60'S TOMORROW IN SARASOTA FLORIDA !

    please come visit

    my best to you,
    just kiddin friend (i hope) cause i enjoy your posts

    ernie
     
  18. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Maybe they took advantage of you with volition, maybe you got the short end of the deal 'cause the seller is not sophisticated enough to have cared about what he/she may have thought was very trivial. I hate to play the game of "let's you and him fight", but based upon what I have read, I think you are more in the right than the seller. I bet the seller did not know about the problems.
     
  19. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Who was the seller?

    Simple question
     
  20. Simphoto

    Simphoto TS Member

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    I am thinking FLTarheel is somewhat embarrassed by his mistake and that is why he is no longer responding to this. It appears he made some critical personal as well as legal mistakes with regard to this transaction. Meaning he relaized he screwed up, personally and in a way that cause his rights as a consumer to get flushed right down the drain.

    We all do this once, at least.

    I have found Gamefair, LTD in Nashville to be of outstanding reputation and integrity with regards to his products. He is going to make a profit with ever gun he sells, but that is what he is in business for. Besides "You get what you pay for" and knowing that somebody with some integrity is behind the sale, PRICELESS.
     
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