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bunker targets

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Old Cowboy, Jul 21, 2012.

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  1. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Are the targets used in bunker trap different than those we use in ATA trap? The reason I ask is if you crank a Pat up to the speed used for bunker you break a LOT of targets so I'm thinking bunker targets must be harder or have thicker rims or something? Just curious??
     
  2. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Here ya go:

    http://www.whiteflyer.com/targetpitch.html
     
  3. gailmk67

    gailmk67 Member

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    Yes they are different; simply stated they are smaller diameter, has 1 dome less(shorter) and they are thicker/ harder to withstand the velocity.

    Joe
     
  4. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    Bunker/International targets are actually 110mm vs 108mm for ATA targets. And yes, harder/tougher to withstand the launch speeds. The whiteflyer website above details this.
     
  5. Dave S

    Dave S Active Member

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    Wobble isn't all about speed. Wobble also known outside the USA as Automatic Ball Trap has a increase of target angle from the ATA 22 degree to (if your trap house will allow it) 45 degree target spread. Also posts 1&5 shoot from the 18yd and posts 2,3,4 shoot from the 17yd so they are shooting in a straight line like bunker. So lower the speed to where the targets aren't breaking (cheaper than buying Int targets) and widen the angles and step back further and you'll have a tough enough target. And if you want to do it right the shooters pads should be the same height as the top of the trap house. Try using 7/8 loads instead of 1 1/8 oz loads.
     
  6. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Dave S ....


    Your wrong about speed. The target speed for Automatic Trap is 76 Meters when measure at a 2 Meter height at the 10 meter line. So if you really want to be legal you need to buy the correct targets.

    Tom
     
  7. Dave S

    Dave S Active Member

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    I was thinking they were shooting for fun not to make the USA bunker team. Unless they wanted to use that trap for wobble only, changing and storing different targets would be alot of trouble. And for those of us not used to meters what is 76 meters in mph?
     
  8. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Automatic Ball Trap


    More commonly known as ABT or simply Ball Trap.

    This is a simpler variation of Olympic Trap and is the next most popular trap discipline after DTL.

    It is often used as a stepping stone to Olympic Trap. Only one trap is used and target variation is obtained by the continuous oscillation of the trap in both horizontal and vertical directions in order to give the same spread of targets as in Olympic Trap.

    The targets are thrown to a distance of 75m metres at angles of 30° - 45° from the horizontal angle.

    A squad is made up of 6 shooters with one target taken at each stand. The shooter moves to the stand to his right after that shooter has taken his shot. Each shooter shoots 25 targets and may take 2 shots at each with either counting as a kill

    http://www.trapcoach.com/ABT.html

    -------

    Shot this with regular targets and ATA speed, not the same game.
     
  9. pufftarget

    pufftarget Active Member

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    Aren't the targets thrown the same as a bunker; 45 degree either side of center and 1.5-3.5 m @ 10 meters? A 45 degree target would be 10 meters high @ 10 meters out; way too high.

    The speed is about 62 mph for a 2m target to 76m.

    Chuck
     
  10. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    pufftarget is in exact agreement with what I found to be the speed after getting the correct distance. Also, it took less spring with the correct target to get the right distance.

    Edit for TBaber. I don't think you're speaking of a Stalker Pro gun that's just been serviced and recalibrated.
     
  11. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    The use of inaccurate radar guns is no substitute for a range stake and height pole.

    I have seen attempts to set bunker targets with ATA type radar guns and it ended up with a very crappy setting. We had to go back and do it right.

    T
     
  12. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    T

    That's because you aren't interested in consistant speeds, just distance. As you know, speed will fluctuate to a given distance between facilities and from day to day depending on conditions. You likely throw different speed targets than they throw in Texas.
     
  13. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Answer to Old Cowboy. Yes, they are different. International targets are larger in diameter, and the dome is not as tall. I believe they are slightly heavier.
     
  14. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    No radar gun is truly accurate enough to set bunker targets. Bunker targets are meant to vary in speed.

    Again there is no substitute for a range stake and height pole.

    T
     
  15. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    T:

    Yes, the different trap settings each require a different speed, but my point is even with the exact same scheme on particular traps, the speeds will likely vary from one day to another, or from club to club.

    Why are radar guns not accurate enough for bunker?
     
  16. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    I hear and understand what you're saying Tom. Like most of the threads on here, it's gone in two directions. My information was trying to help the person using the wobble trap to similate your shooting. I do not have any experience at setting bunker targets and will not offer an opinion on it.
     
  17. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    The main difference between a wobble and bunker is speed. A wobble is constant and a bunker varies. This is one of the reasons that bunker is more difficult and that Cantaburrys Auto Trench is not a real substitute for a bunker.

    Radar guns are inherently inaccurate. Enough said. The argument that speeds vary from club to club is hogwash. If the targets are set properly there is little if any variation. Target speed does vary slightly due to altitude but its really not a major issue.

    I agree that we have gotten off topic here. The really issue is wobble trap and one really needs the correct international target to properly throw them.

    Tom
     
  18. PAR8HED

    PAR8HED Member

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    On this topic I do I have a great deal of expertise. Cowboy, the explanation for the difference in target size is elsewhere and accurate. As for the rest, you mentioned that you are using a Pat trap. Crank the speed up as far as it will go and use that. Unless you have double bands on it or live in Colorado, you're not going to make it to 76 meters. I live in Minnesota and will estimate that I'm getting around 65 distance. Next, adjust the height so you are estimating between 1.5 to 3.0 meters in height measured at 10m from the front of your house. Because it is wobble, you will probably have to raise the lower parameter and lower the upper magnet. Finally, spread out the angles as far as you can get it to go. I'm fairly certain that this will exceed the 45 degree angles you see on a bunker, but the "appearance" of the targets will be similar. If you really want to simulate the bunker experience, get a stand to raise your feet to level with the top of the trap house. But realize, this is only a simulation.

    Issues. Broken targets will usually be the result of three things. First, the plate on the machine or the arm are out of alignment. If there is any debris in the machine, clear it. Second, if the the targets are old or been sitting in the heat that will cause breaks. White Flyer seems to work best and much better than Champion. Finally, Pat traps will work for this but you need to have them mechanically sound. If they get out of alignment, especially the center post and plate, then you will get nothing but broken targets.

    Next, get all orange targets if at all possible. Standard black rim targets do not look anything like a bunker target in flight and are MUCH easier to see. The White Flyer bio targets work really well.

    Finally, understand that this is just a simulation. Bunker targets will appear from the side of center as the schemes are designed to cross at 10m out. Consequently, when shooting from a wobble you will see all targets coming from the center instead of both sides. Also, you will get a ton of shallow angle and straight away targets and very few hard angle low targets. If someone has the cure for this, I'm all ears!

    Tom is right on the speed issue. You will not get variations in speed and this will mess with your tempo when shooting on a bunker. Also, use a voice release so it will release the birds on your call and not when the puller decides to throw it.

    For those of us who don't have a bunker, it's the best you can do. (Don't get me started on that topic.) I find it works well, but it still isn't the same as being on the real thing.

    Hal Hitchcock
     
  19. pufftarget

    pufftarget Active Member

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    We put together a ground level wobble trap to handle days when the bunker is down or for over capacity (ain't happened). We have a biomat and can throw an ata target 76 meters but it is too hard on the arm (bent one)so we backed it off. We haven't used an international target since the field is generally used by recreational shooters. No breakage w/ ata targets even when throwing 76m. Also, I find I must open my vision more than a bunker to accomodate the wide area where the target appears. This is partly due to the fact that the height of the carousel does not allow the machine height in the house to be correct (.5m+-.1m). The distribution is center weighted but there are enough wide high and low to keep your attention. Incidentally, the '68 Olympic champion trained almost exclusively on a wobble due to lack of access to a bunker.

    Hal, it is my understanding that 3 bands are needed to get a 76m target from a Pat.

    Also, we came up w/ a fix to throw the targets 1-1/2-3m vice the 1-4m usual for a biomat if someone is interested.

    Chuck
     
  20. PAR8HED

    PAR8HED Member

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    Chuck,

    An easy way to set height? Do tell!

    I've also heard that you need 3 bands to get a 76m target from a Pat.

    Hal
     
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