1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

BUNKER GUN.... what is it?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Hauxfan, Jan 6, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,086
    Here is a picture of a "bunker gun".

    [​IMG]

    Maybe not quite what you had in mind, but now you can see why bunker shooting isn't as popular as trap. ;)

    Hauxfan!
     
  2. Wentez

    Wentez Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    126
    Bunker, olympic trap, trench - wider angles and much faster target. You need a gun to move quickly. Typically they are lighter so they swing quicker. Years ago guns in the 28 1/2" - 29 1/2" range were very popular.

    I am not up to date on what the preferred dimensions are now. One of the experts will doubtless come on board with a better answer - Les Greevy??

    Geo
     
  3. Baber

    Baber TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,348
    Typical bunker guns are 30" choked .25/.35. They are generally. Stocked to shoot about 1/2 a pattern high.


    Tom
     
  4. Baber

    Baber TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,348
    Typical bunker guns are 30" choked .25/.35. They are generally. Stocked to shoot about 1/2 a pattern high.


    Tom
     
  5. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    Hauxfan, I actually did LOL at that. My wife sitting next to me thinks I am nuts. Good one. Jake

    PS. At any big bunker shoot about 70% of the guns on the line are Perazzis with 29.5" barrels and flat ribs.
     
  6. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    Mike, I am probably too invested. If I found something that felt more alive than my dear old Perazzis, it would shatter my fragile old heart.

    What do you mean about making "another run of light weight Perazzi bunker barrels?" I know you had the one made up by Simmons. Best, Jake
     
  7. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    My "bunker" guns are AK's, AR's and FAL's.
     
  8. Baber

    Baber TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,348
    Understand that Mr. Perazzi once asked why Americans shoot 32" barrels. Someone replied with various reasons like we are bigger, taller, and liked the longer sighting plane. He listen for a moment and they stated that its sad that Americans must handicap themselves to shoot better. 30" is the best way to go for this fast demanding game.

    TB
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,787
    My bunker gun is set up for 50/50 POI, 29 1/2" barrels. My trap gun is 80/20 POI, 34" barrel. Big differance.
     
  10. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    410er, You never told us you still shoot bunker. So, are you still breakin' 50 straights with two shots? By the way, big time rain this weekend in So. Cal. But I am still reserving judgment on your claim till I talk to Bill B. Regards, Jake
     
  11. JimE

    JimE Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    71
    I choked my youngest son’s (Evan) Browning 32” (flat, sporting style rib) at .012” and .028”. I over-bored them as much as possible to lighten them up so they move very quickly. Something that most don’t realize is that the newer 24 gr loads are VERY efficient; much, much more so that the old loads before restrictions. Even at .025”, if conditions in the barrel are conducive to efficient patterns, it is difficult to get the patterns to open up to any significant degree over the .035” (second shot) choke. Granted, Evan is 17 years old with faster target acquisition and reflexes than most older, established shooters. We’re currently putting together a Krieghoff and will probably tighten up on the chokes somewhat, but nowhere near .025” for the first shot. His Browning had a 17” high POI at 35 yards which is probably a handicap, but held over from his ATA trap days. His Krieghoff will be much lower, but probably not zero. Jim
     
  12. Allen Chubb

    Allen Chubb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    705
    Gentlemen,

    I'm now entering my 29th season of shooting Olympic Trap and here are my personal experiences. When I first started shooting Olympic Trap in Germany, I was using a Remington 3200 "Special Trap", 30" barrels and their weight was 1.65kg and the chokes were Improved Modified and Full with a 60/40 Point of Impact. When I went to the Army Marksmanship Unit we all shot Perazzi MX'8's, with flat ribbed 31 1/2" barrels, Improved Modified and Full and an average of 55/45 or 60/40 POI. I then shot a Perazzi MX-3 for (20) years, which was 31 1/2" barrels, which was 1.565kg and 60/40 POI. I shot some great scores with this gun. I've now retired it and I had Giacomo put a saten nickel finish on the receiver and reblue the barrels. She earned the face lift and a well deserved rest. I have no idea how many rounds I put threw it, but I only ever lost (5) trigger springs and a top lever.

    I've now been shooting a Perazzi MX2000 for (3) seasons and it has 29 1/2" barrels, with an 11 X 11mm flat rib. The weight is 1.585kg and the POI is 55/45 on both barrels. This gun is custom made for Olympic Trap and it has a choke tube on the first barrel and a fixed (#10) full choke on the second. The reason for the one choke tube on the bottom is when you're shooting at different altitudes you'll need to have a more open first barrel at those ranges (Colorado Springs, St. Moritz and Davos Switzerland). These ranges are well above (1) mile and the air is to thin and not dense enough to obtain a proper pattern development as one would acquire at sea level ranges. I put a #5 in when at these altitudes and a #7 at normal sea level type ranges. This system really works and proof is in the medal production and scores since I've gone to it. This gun also crushes Helice (ZZ) targets as well as Flyers.

    Best Regards,

    Allen Chubb
     
  13. Texas Crew'd

    Texas Crew'd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Texas hill country
    Jime

    I purchased a nice high rez slr digital camera for my wife last year. She has taken a lot of pics of shooters (the vast majority being international) as well as our daughter. When set on sport it takes 3 frames a sec. Sorting through the hundreds of pics I've started looking at shot patterns. A 24 gram load can best be described as a fist at 20 yards and perhaps 3 times the target size at 30- 40 yards. Now I realize angles and all that, but she has taken some fantastic shots where you can see the shot hitting the target and wad falling as well just prior to hitting and shot string pics at close as 10 feet from the muzzle.

    When you set you sons gun up what were you seeing as far as chokes and pattern width? Also what is your opinion on fixed chokes vs screw in with a 24 gram load or have you messed with it much.

    Hope you have a happy new year,

    Garry Barney
     
  14. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,358
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    My long time Bunker gun is my K-80 Skeet 30" set to about 60/40. From my ATA days, I shoot IMOD/F or LF/F. I have shot good scores with it and won a silver medal at a big shoot a while back. Nobody was surprised more than me!

    My backup gun, as unlikely as it may be, is a Browning Cynergy Sporter, 30". I installed the spacer on the stock that came with the gun. The first time I shot it on the Bunker field, I shot 73/75 with 8 second shots. I used IMOD/F chokes. I was very impressed (almost astounded) with the way the Cynergy handled. For me, the gun shoots around 60/40.

    I agree the 30" gun is the gold standard for this King of Clay Target Sports. I like tight chokes. When one is dialed in, chokes do not matter. When one is having an off day, chokes STILL do not matter. Les Greevy told me during training with him that "Chokes are in inches. Misses are in feet." He is right.
     
  15. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,787
    jakearoo: There isn't a bunker within 800 miles of where I live. But, I still have the bunker gun which I shoot sporting clays with once in a while. I did shoot bunker for about 18 months with Ed Levitt, mostly, after I broke 50 straight with my 680 SS ungun. My son has the famous 680 today. I long since moved on to a Ljutic for Trap.
     
  16. JimE

    JimE Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    71
    Hey Garry,

    That's probably the most intelligent question on this thread, as choke constriction doesn't guarantee a given performance. Choke performance is dependent on conditions behind the choke in the bore, in addition to the performance of the cartridge. The question should be "What performance is needed to break an International target?"

    Anyway, Evan's first shot is 25.25" of effective coverage at 30 yards, with an efficiency of 86.75%. Again, maybe a little light. I would guess that a good first target is broken at about an average of 35 yards (that's going to vary widely depending on the target). Even though Evan's first shot might be a little light, his average was 86% last year, not good enough, but not too bad either. There are times when he has trouble with the first shot, but I've seen him shoot 22 first barrels and a 22 in a final with the under (first barrel).

    Screw choke or fixed should not make a difference if everything is working well in the barrel.

    Good luck to Caitlin. How's she doing?

    Jim
     
  17. Texas Crew'd

    Texas Crew'd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Texas hill country
    Thanks Jim,

    You must have been mind reading. I was figuering there must be a full equation regarding chokes as in cones bores and chokes, in other words ..more that just the choke effecting optimum performance.

    Cait's doing well thank you for asking, after JO's she came home discouraged but hard core dedicated. she was averaging 94/100 prior to JOs and shooting 23-24 finals cold. The kid lives on gunpowder and lead. She took a break for 2 weeks, her idea of a break was shooting some sporting clays and skeet. She went back to strong fundemental training and has been working hard on her vision.

    I hope to see you and Evan in Kerrville soon. I'd love to pick your brain some more.

    Good Luck to Evan as well.

    Garry
     
  18. Baber

    Baber TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,348
    Sportshot:

    What are tournament fees like for a round of Bunker trap? Are these registered with an International Shooting organization.

    Typically competition is about $45 per 100 + USAS fees. Yes.. they are registered with USA Shooting the National Governing Body (NGB) for all Olympic Shooting.

    Tom
     
  19. Allen Chubb

    Allen Chubb Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    705
    Sportshot,

    Yes, Randy Gates and I were on the Army Team at the same time. He was shooting a Browning Citori with a thumbhole stock. He let me shoot it a couple of times and it actually felt good after you got used to it. Randy was kind of an interesting character. He was on the holy roller rampage at the time and used to call us all sinners and potty mouths. I guess we're all sinners, aren't we?

    PerazziBigBore,

    When we were in Italy in 2006 and Johnny Pellielo had us over to his house for a visit. He had a bunch of gun cases laying on the floor and he pulled out an MX-2005 that Perazzi had given him. He looked at me and started to laugh while pointing at the gun and asked me "Allen, how am I too shoot this gun"? He continued "This is a crazy gun for Olympic Trap". After the 2000 Olympic Games, his contract was up with Beretta and he went back to shooting Perazzi's and opted to start shooting the MX-8 that he grew up shooting. Perazzi has given him all kinds of guns to shoot, but he still chooses his old MX-8. Out of the (12) Olympic Medals that were won at the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens with Perazzi's, all of them were won with MX-8's and MX-2000, except for Kim Rhodes win in women's double trap with an MX-12 and a Hungarian woman used a SC3 to capture her Bronze Medal. I see a lot of shooters experimenting with higher ribs these days. I shot my MX-3 well for alot of years, but the railroad tressle bridge type rib found on an MX-2005 is excessive in my book. I guess I should be more opened minded until I've had an opportunity to shoot one. I think that it's a good idea for International Double Trap, because the targets are always rising and the angles are not as sharp as well as the targets are slower. I feel that the low flat angles on the Olympic Trap schemes can burn you with an excessively high ribbed gun. Yes, you might be able to shoot it well at times, but I think that there will be a consistency issue over time.

    In short, Michael Diamond of Australia has all the World records, two Olympic Gold Medals, (5) World Championships and they were all shot with an MX-8. That's going to be tough to beat.

    Best Regards,

    Allen Chubb
     
  20. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    Allen, When you say an MX-8 its not real descriptive. The standard American MX-8 has a stepped rib. Most bunker guns I see have flat ribs. And, you point to an SC3 which is nothing but an MX-8 with engraving. I mean, the gun is the same. I think the interesting question is what barrel length and rib configuration. Most of them that I see are 29.5 inches with flat ribs. But, you certainly have way more experience with the real big time shooters than I. Jake
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

bunker trap gun

,

what is bunker trap