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braking the squad rhythum

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by smsnyder, Jun 23, 2007.

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  1. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    i was at the Pa. state shoot and watch a young lady in a shootoff with Debbie Ohye and several other shooters. This young lady would break the shooting rhythum everytime when it was her turn to shoot. She won the shootoff. It came to me perhaps i need not to follow the squad rhythum when shooting and set my own rhythum. I found it to be a little hard to do at first but it does slow you down quite a bit. My scores have increase alot if i do this. I have had more 24 and 25 this week than all year shooting. What's you opnion on this? This has to have a physiological effect on other shooters.
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Earl, when it's your turn to shoot no one else has the fight to tell you how.

    NOthing in the rule book has any say on this.

    My eyes are not real good, and I shoot better if I give them a couple seconds to focus on the area in front of the trap.

    People who have a problem with it are free to squad elsewhere.

    HM
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    smsnyder- You certainly shoot with the timing that is best for you. It is true that a nice even pace within a squad can help keep everyone focused during the event. In a shoot off, squad rhythm is generally non existent.

    If you do shoot a little slow make it a point to not shoot with Terry Dean's squad from Kentucky. If one member of the squad happens to miss a bird, and that is rare, two other members of the squad have shot before the scorer can call lost. The squad shoots a round of 25 in about 7 minutes and most of this time is used to change posts. I love to shoot with them.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Pat ... I wouldn't want to hand set targets for Terry's squad. Bill Malcolm
     
  5. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Here's another "tip". Play the voice caller microphone game. When it's time to move, either don't move the mic at all or, better yet, place it so the person following you HAS to move it again. It usually affects only one other shooter, but if he has buddies on the squad, it will get to them too. Next, try mounting your gun while the shooter to your left is chasing his target (if you have an auto, release the bolt right after they call 'pull', or better yet, alternate randomly!). Wow, a couple more of these and you'll get to shoot on one man squads.

    What exactly was she doing to "break the shooting rhythum"?
     
  6. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    the first shooter would mount gun call pull and shoot, the second shooter would do the same. she would not even move her gun from the rest position (RUBBER PAD) until the shooter before her put his gun down. She would never hold the gun in her hand waiting to shoot. there was quite a bit of delay between the time she mounted her gun and shot vs the other shooters. it wasn't alot but you could notice and see the difference in timed mounting and gun placement before shooting. i watch debbie ohye drop 4 targets at 16 yards in the shootoff. It did have an effect on her.
     
  7. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    I also shot with a guy who was two slow. You could eat a whole sandwich between his shots. That unnerved me and that was to extreme in trap line rhythum.
     
  8. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    As im a new shooter, What bothers me is a inconsistant squad. Im not really concerned with the length of time for a shooter to shoot as long as they keep same pace. One member I shoot with is what i call slooowwwww. He takes a bit longer than most but is very consistant. 2nd thing that bothers me is when shooter to my right starts moving his gun to get ready as im mounting my gun, for safty issues i believe there should be no gun movement unless it is your turn, Actions are suposed to be open until your turn to shoot right? I see many the poeple to my right closing actions as im preparing to shoot. Shooters who just are not ready when their turn comes up are the real bother. So this brings up a question how long is to long, my wife is a slow shooter also but very very very consistant! takes 30 secounds from when previous shooter goes bang until she pulls the trigger. My wife does a few things 1 she will never put a round in the chamber until its her turn 2 does not move until she hears bang of shooter before her 3 never rushes. shes shooting about 5 rounds a month and her average is 15. no practice just gets up there does her thing. I have seen many shooters take longer. What is to long?
     
  9. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    I tend to prefer a squad that shoots somewhat fast. It's just personal preference. We have discussed the "open action until it's your turn to shoot" on previous threads. In example, I close my action when I'm on station 5, when the shooter on station 3 shoots. This way I disturb no one and am ready when it's my turn to shoot. Arguments against this practice are prevelent. I see no harm or danger in this practice. As long as the gun is kept pointed down range and the finger is outside the trigger guard. If something happens before it is my turn to shoot, (several broken targets in a row, a squad members gun malfunctioning, etc.), I immediately open the action. To my knowledge, there is no ATA rule against closing the action as I have described. Ed
     
  10. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    30 seconds is too long IMHO. That is over 12 minutes per shooter not counting the time to change posts. So a full squad, that had everyone taking 30 seconds per shot, will need over an hour to shoot a line. FORGETTABOUTIT. I will shoot elsewhere.

    Your friends may not say anything but it is not fun to shoot with someone that slow. Actually, I doubt she is taking that long - anything over 10 seconds seems like a long time. If she holds the gun up that long her arms will get really tired.

    I doubt a competitor like Ms Ohye dropped four birds because of someones pace. You do not worry about crap like that at that level. If you do, you can not get to that level. JMHO

    Don
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I have shot with people who are slow and people who are fast ... If I have my choice I will take the faster squad everytime ... I like a squad that gives me just enough time to open the gun reload and be ready to shoot again without breaking the rythum of the rest of the shooters on the squad ... I will not shoot with shooters that I know are unusually slow if I have a choice ... I shot with a guy who was so slow I kept asking him if he was alright after every shot and then he wanted to tell me the story of the Old Bull and Young Bull, I told him I heard it dozens of times and if he talks as slow as he shoots I'd miss supper, so no Thanks ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. oletymer

    oletymer Member

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    Fast, slow, green or orange targets, wind, no wind it makes no differnce to me. I just wait my time and shoot when it's my turn. Thinking about all the other stuff will kill you.
     
  13. hubcap

    hubcap TS Member

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    I prefer to squad with guys who will shoot 4 rounds in an hour. That's an average of a round every 15 minutes. However, I have no problem with an individual who takes longer to shoot. IF the timing of someone else is messing up MY shooting, then I need to work on my mental game.

    Also, I've found that if I get on a fast squad I naturally try to fall into their rythym and I will more than likely lose a bird here or there.

    Take as much time as you need. You paid as much as everyone else for the birds.

    hubcap
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I shoot at my own pace. I close and mount the gun when it's my turn and call the target when I'm ready. Sometimes you just need to scratch an itch, readjust something, wipe some sweat, or fart before calling the bird. I will also not pull the trigger until I'm ready to shoot the target. I've never had complaints about my speed. I don't like to be rushed. Other than that, I have all the time in the world, so someone who is a bit slow doesn't bother me. If you can't relax and concentrate on the target, you probably won't do too well. If you are worried about speed, your mind is not on the game, where it should be.

    If a slower shooter really caused someone to miss 4 targets, the one that missed has the problem. They need to learn how to chill a bit and deal with some inconsistencies.
     
  15. cueguy2

    cueguy2 TS Member

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    The old joke......about anyone who is slow at anything...."Out of 10,000,000 spermatoza, it is hard to believe that YOU were the quickest one". If you think Terry Dean's squad is fast, try Eric Shroyer's squad. Nubs Wagner.
     
  16. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I also suspect she had no impact on Debbie Ohye's dropping four birds.
    Also, It's common for women to keep a low (on the ground) gun till their time to shoot. It only adds a couple seconds to get it up. Unless she is dramatically outside that 8-10 second range, she would have had no impact on the other shooters.

    I've shot with plenty of quick squads, not too many of them have 100 straights, but, their fast.

    taking your time (within reason) is the real trick to straights...

    Jim
     
  17. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    Why ever Debbie missed 4 targets, I would about bet that it was NOT because of someone else's speed or lack thereof. John
     
  18. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    If you let a slow of fast shot bother you, you've got a problem. Never let anything get in your head. PLay your own game. If you do this you'll win a lot more.
     
  19. Mac V

    Mac V Guest

    One of the few things that really cranks me about trap shooting are the shooters who cherish the fantasy that there needs to be some sort of rhythm in a squad.
    Trap shooting is not a team sport, not synchronized swimming and not some sort or rhythmic gymnastics or dance. It's an competition of a person against their targets with the person breaking the most being the winner.

    I don't depend on any other shooter(s) to set a pace for me to follow, and any other shooters who expect me to follow theirs or set one for them will be really disappointed.

    Oh, and I've been taught by several coaches that jerking around with the other guy's rhythm is one of the better ways to get inside their heads during a shoot-off...and it does work.

    Mike
     
  20. larryjk

    larryjk Member

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    I would never say people are reading the trap BUT, if you shoot with very little time between shooters on a pat trap field, you will basically get the same bird the shooter before you got. Kind of like the 3 second count on a White Flyer machine. It is fun to get one one of those squads and slow up the cadence so that the guy on your right gets a bird that is a little different than the person to your left. Even though they can get about the same bird as you if they shoot fast enough, it seems to blow their game if you break the cadence. Mind games are fun if there are people around who read the machine. Watch a fast squad. The birds don't vary in direction very much.
     
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