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Blow ups and reloads

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by redbone99, Oct 10, 2009.

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  1. redbone99

    redbone99 Member

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    There seems to be a lot of cases of gun blow ups and barrel bursts. From the conversations I've heard at shoots, my opinion is that there are a considerable number of shooters that should not be reloading.These are the ones that will switch primers,wads and even hulls with no regard to the warnings in the reloading manuals. I see reloads with the crimp not closed and shot running out. I've seen discarded hulls that the mouth of the case is so bad they should have been pitched about 5 reloads prior. If a person is running near max pressure and then starts changing components the pressures go up in a hurry.It appears to me that you could easily be talking 3 or 4 thousand psi. This is at least stressing the gun and perhaps contributing to metal fatique.I'm sure at some time we've all shot on a squad with a person that their shots go pop,pop, KA-BOOM. Makes me nervous to be next to them.Of course most of these people know more than the techs. that do the testing and write the manuals.
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Bad things happen to stupid people!

    Curt
     
  3. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Do you have any extra hulls you can sell to those guys that are shooting rags each week?

    Powder companies will test a load for you if they don't have data on it. You should at least ask because they have lots of data that isn't even published or it was published and is no longer popular. If the data exists, there's no excuse for not following it.

    Talk about the behavior you want. Email a website reference, print stuff out and give it to the guys. Discuss the issues, but in a friendly way. Nobody wants a gun blow up at their club.

    I just heard of a guy who switched powders to get in line with common practice after guys talked to him about it. If you're not comfortable talking about it; ask somebody else to help you address it...

    Keep up the social talk about the issues. Sometimes just asking a question about what loads a guy is shooting in enough. They will sense you are watching. People do change.

    Good luck.
     
  4. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    Actually, considering the millions of reloaded shotshells fired each year, the number of incidents involving gun damage or catastrophic blow up is very small. Nonetheless, you are correct in your concerns since even one blow up is too many, especially if the shooter or someone else is injured. I have long advocated that shooting clubs and ranges should do more to make their members aware of the dangers in reloading in order to improve reloading habits and practices. This should, in my opinion, be done though educational programs at the clubs, awareness posters, perhaps teaching sessions occasionally, and any other method clubs can use to reach their members and encourage safe reloading practices. And when we, as individuals, note unsafe or bad reloads (loads get really load for someone), then we should find ways to discuss it with the shooter and try to help.

    Jim R
     
  5. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    You can stand on your head until the cows come home and folks will do what they want. Even when you talk about wanting certain things and to make change for the better/safer - no one wants the confrontation.

    When the next accident happens (and it will) and the range closes... it'll be too late to say "I shoulda". Everyone knows "best" today...

    my cynical response for the weekend...

    jay
     
  6. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I cringe whenever I see "The Routine."


    ...you know "The Routine," right?


    It's when you're shooting Annies and porch shoots, and right after one round of competition, one competitor steps over to the other, and says, "Here, try one of THESE"...then reaches in his pocket and hands the other guy a shell.


    The second guy pops it into his gun, shoots one (1) target with it, then makes a "conclusion" about the quality of that load ("Boy it hits 'em hard), etc.


    Sometimes, about 40% of the time, the second guy will actually ask the recipe of what's in the load. ZERO percent of the time (or maybe 0.1%), they will ask if it's actually published in a loading manual. (I've never actually seen that latter one - I just added the 0.1% to sound "fair," since I'm making the numbers up anyway.)


    When the good ole boys start sampling each other's home cooking - that's when I go back in the clubhouse (behind concrete block walls) and buy a Mt. Dew out of the machine.


    Stay away from "The Routine."
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Just an observation not to long on this board a thread was on here about loading data for the Walmart Federals. He got some where in the neighborhood of 10 to 15 responses.

    As I remember correctly out of those that responded only one told him to check the manuals for proper data. I have further more never seen any shell published as Walmart Federals. Now I would have to say that those shells qualify as unpublished yet thousands of people load them.

    Has anyone ever cut the shell off just above the base wad to see what it was made of. I haven't in a long time because the last time I did they either a wound paper base wad or a cork type material. I can't remember which but I can tell you they don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about keeping the barrel clear after each shot.

    Yet there are many threads started here every year that ask questions about unavailable loading data and many people furnish answers to these questions. So if it isn't published don't load it and that what most of the manuals say.

    I will go a little farther than that and say it shouldn't be recommend on this site either. Of course that is just my opinion.

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I saw a first a while back at the Tucson T&S GC. The guy was shooting a Win. model 140 with Win. choke tubes. Before he realized something was wrong, his choke tube had a section broken out on the right side! It was a rectangle about 1/8 wide X 3/4 inch long when we looked at it inside the barrel! The pressure also bulged the outer part of his barrel too, several small "bumps" were on the outside! No idea how many shots he made with the piece broken out either? I've seen choke tubes crack but this is the first tube I've seen a chunk break out of like that. I didn't think to ask him if he'd shot any steel in it either nor did I have my camera with me that day. It looked as though the tube initially cracked, then continued till the rectangular piece broke out completely damaging the barrel wall with small "bumps" or bulges! I'll ask him for pictures if I see him again. Hap
     
  9. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Bob, There is an abundance of published and semi-published load data for "Walmart Federals"; look for anything that says 'Federal' but does not say 'Gold Medal' and there'ya go.

    They are compressed fiber now, and not rolled paper, btw.


    Bob
     
  10. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    I used to load the Walmart Federals in 20 gauge following the non-Gold Medal tables. They were mild loads and the hulls always crimped well, but I noticed that after the second reload, some of the hulls had chunks of basewad missing. After that I would only reload them once and then chuck 'em. They still made me nervous, so I soon just quit using them altogether. I no longer even reload 20 gauge (gave that gun to my youngest and he only shoots factory loads), but in 12 gauge and .410 bore, I use only AA's.

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude abides..."
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    goatskin

    "There is an abundance of published and semi-published load data for "Walmart Federals"; look for anything that says 'Federal' but does not say 'Gold Medal' and there'ya go."

    Of course you contacted Federal to confirm that these shell are exactly what you say they are. Or are you just assuming they are the same?????

    "Charles.F.Phillips

    "but in 12 gauge and .410 bore, I use only AA's."

    Unclear "Charley" I also use AA in 410 one piece only. I reload no two piece hulls. There is less chance of a mishap with one piece. I only reload one piece hulls in all gauges.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Federal has so-stated that their Game Hulls of all varieties and lengths, Target & Field ('Walmart Federals') and Top Gun are the identical construction: plastic tube, compressed fiber low basewad and steel head.

    Additionally, both Hodgdon and Alliant will tell you to use FGM data in the Walmart Federal if you wish. (that's the 'semi-published' part)


    Bob
     
  13. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    <i>"Unclear "Charley" I also use AA in 410 one piece only. I reload no two piece hulls. There is less chance of a mishap with one piece. I only reload one piece hulls in all gauges."</i>

    In .410 bore, I use the "new" HS-AA's because that's the only one's I've been able to find and I think are two piece. In 12 gauge, I use "old" gray AA's that I've been able to order in lots of 1000 - I'm fairly sure they are one-piece. Someday I assume the old ones will dry up and I guess I'll have to switch to the HS AA hulls.
     
  14. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    I have Federal loading manual for their fibre based shells. It was printed in 1995 for only a select number of powders and very limited wads and only the Fed 209A. It was only 2 pages long. I have tried one of the recipes and have had very good luck with it. I wonder if Federal has info more current???
     
  15. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    I have not seen Federal-Federal reloading data in dog-years, but the Federal Plastic/Fiber basewad hulls are 'Eurotrash' straight-wall hulls you can use FGM data in them - just stay away from +11000 psi or -4000psi loads.

    Across a chrongraph, they are .5gn slower than FGM-Plastic and .5gn faster than FEdPapers.

    [edited to correct low pressure number.]

    Bob
     
  16. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    I think there are two simple rules to follow here.

    (1) Use only published, verified load data and loads. (by verified, I mean call the powder company to see if that load has been tested and okayed) And stick to the components listed for that load.

    (2) When/if using a hull with separate base wad, each hull should be carefully inspected for any problems or issues with the basewad before loading it. Any indication that the base wad is damaged, out of place, piece missing, or anything else should be cause for throwing that hull away.

    Anything else is simply "russian roulette" with shotshells.

    Jim R
     
  17. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    Jim R,

    Better advice, I've never heard...
     
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