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Blaze Orange on a Dove Hunt???

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by cleboje, Sep 3, 2007.

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  1. cleboje

    cleboje Member

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    Past several years I have noticed a trend that puzzles me...

    Why do some folks insist on wearing blaze orange hats or vests on a dove hunt?

    Doves can see colors from a country mile, so why make yourself stand out to them?

    I tactfully reminded a few dads of this fact and they did not take the hint to remove the blaze orange to get more birds idea.

    Is this ignorance or uber-safety minded individuals in the (sometimes very crowded) dove fields?

    Joe
     
  2. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they are wearing the "blaze orange" so that other hunters can see them and not shoot them.

    Did they give you some sort of squirrelly look when you mentioned it. If so, maybe it was you they were worried about......

    Hauxfan!
     
  3. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Smart hunters use those fools to scare the birds where they're posted!!
     
  4. willing

    willing Member

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    STate law.

    Bill
     
  5. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    As Cleboje comments, you need to wear muted colors or camouflage when dove hunting. Doves have excellent vision and can even remember your vehicle license plate number and learn to avoid you.

    However, once I read that doves cannot see purple and that purple clothing, at least a shirt, is best for dove hunting.

    Has anybody else heard of this?

    O/T, at one time, back in the 1980’s, somebody gave me a “mamouflage” jacket. Anybody ever see “Mamouflage”?
     
  6. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

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    colors don't matter, movement does.
     
  7. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    It's a good idea for safety, and color doesn't spook birds like movement does. In a small field, with unknown gunners, not a bad idea.
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    An orange hat would not be good if I am in the field. I have become trained to shoot at moving orange disks. Sometimes I hit them.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    I use the Orange Hunters to flare the birds in my direction. I hunted with a fool that insisted on wearing orange. I was in the Indian Casino [Yuma, AZ.] by 7:30 AM with a limit while he was still pounding sand in the field wondering why he was not getting shots. He was a non-listner and could not be told anything... I don't go with him anymore. Fred
     
  10. jnoemanh

    jnoemanh TS Member

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    Big Jim's correct. If you are still, you're as good as invisible to a dove. I remember watching a gal, dressed in pink, plop down on a stool in the center of an open field, and the doves never saw her. Until she knocked them down.
     
  11. cleboje

    cleboje Member

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    For the know-it all self-taught 'experts'; I offer this scientific study (albiet of the 'ring-dove' and not the morning dove) as proof positive that doves can see color, although, as the study suggests, this may be related to sex of the bird and general temperament...put that in your pipe and smoke it.



    PSYCHOLOGY: R. M. YERKES
    Such a formula would indicate to the examiner that X is especially
    deficient or peculiar in affective characteristics.
    6. The measuring scale shall be arranged on four pages, those measurements
    dealing with one of the four categories of mentality occupying
    a page. On each sheet, the several measurements shall be arranged
    in order of increasing difficulty, and the same shall hold of the order
    of arrangement within any given part of the series, that is, any one of
    the twenty types of measurement.
    7. The measurements shall be chosen, so far as possible, with a view
    to simplicity of materials and ease and uniformity of observation.
    8. The scale shall be dependent for its value upon safely determined
    norms.
    COLOR VISION IN THE RING-DOVE (Tutur risorius)
    By Robert M. Yerkes
    PSYCHOLOGICAL LABORATORY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY
    Preented to the Academy, December 4, 1914
    The psychophysiological literature, both naturalistic and experiental,
    on color vision in infra-human animals, is surprisingly extensive. But
    even more surprising is the extreme uncriticalness of the methods which
    have been employed. A realization of this condition of affairs within
    the past decade led simultaneously to the development, by C. Hess, in
    Europe, and by R. M. Yerkes in association with J. B. Watson, and
    more recently by G. H. Parker, in America, of spectral methods for the
    comparative study of color vision. These methods enable the experimenter
    to measure and control his stimuli in their various aspects and
    to observe with reasonable accuracy organic response to specific stimuli.
    The method now in use in this country, developed by Watson and me,
    may be named from the nature of the stimulus and the form of reaction
    demanded 'the method of discriminating spectral stimuli.' It involves
    the use of a special form of prism spectrometer with devices for selecting,
    spacing, reversing, and displaying any two portions of the spectrum,
    with means of controlling the selected stimuli qualitatively and intensively,
    of measuring them in photometric and energy units, and of so
    presenting them to the reacting animal that it may, if capable of so
    doing, recognize them and react appropriately.'
    Until very recently, it has been the prevalent opinion even among
    scientific persons that many, if not most of the vertebrates, possess
    fairly highly developed color vision, which in many instances is closely
    117
    PSYCHOLOGI: R. M. YERKES
    similar to the human. That this opinion is erroneous and demands
    correction is proved by the results obtained by the use of spectral stimuli.
    It is now definitely known, for example, that, among the rodents,
    the mouse, rat, and rabbit well-nigh lack the ability to distinguish colors.
    For them, long wave-lengths are of surprisingly low stimulating value.
    The spectral range of certain day-birds appears to be similar to that
    of man. Among the higher animals, critical observation indicates that
    the cat and dog possess slight power to respond differentially to different
    wave-lengths. The observations at present available do not justify
    dogmatic statements, but they conclusively prove that all earlier accounts
    of color vision in these animals are misleading.
    During the past ten years, I have devoted a large amount of time
    to the development of methods and the accumulation of facts. My
    study of vision in the dancing mouse,2 which went far toward proving
    the absence of color discrimination in that organism, led me to abandon
    the use of stimuli obtained from colored papers, cloths, or the use of
    ray-filters, and to depend wholly upon spectral light.
    At present I have undertaken the study of color vision in the ringdove,
    3 using the Watson-Yerkes spectral light apparatus with a type
    of reaction-box which was developed in connection with the study of
    the dancing mouse. The method which is employed in connection with
    this apparatus has been called 'the discrimination method.' Watson
    has recently suggested the name 'sensory habit method.' It involves
    the simultaneous presentation to an organism of two stimuli which
    differ definitely and measurably in some respect or respects. It demands
    of the animal that it react differently to the two stimuli; to the one of
    them positively, to the other negatively. Positive reaction is encouraged
    by the reward of food and inappropriate response is discouraged by
    disagreeable electrical stimulation. The essential features of the apparatus
    are, first, a home compartment in which the animal receives stimulation
    from two adjacent sources. If, in a certain required manner, it
    approaches the stimulus which has been defined as the 'positive,' it is
    permitted to escape thence by way of a narrow passage to a food compartment
    where it receives its reward. If, on the contrary, it approaches
    the stimulus designated as the 'negative,' it is punished by electrical
    stimulation, is forced to retreat, and then again has the opportunity
    to react to the 'positive' stimulus.
    The sensory habit apparatus, even in its most improved form, is a
    fairly simple mechanism, and the sensory habit method, with the employment
    of reward and punishment as conditions for careful discrimi-
    118
    PSYCHOLOGY: R. M. YERKES
    nation and habit formation, has proved remarkably satisfactory and
    has yielded valuable results in numerous investigations.
    It has thus far been demonstrated that the ring-dove may be trained,
    although rather laboriously, to appropriate forms of achromatic discrimination,
    and that similarly it may be used by the sensory habit
    method for studies of chromatic discrimination. Experiments with two
    individuals demonstrate the existence of the Purkinje phenomenon in
    this organism. This was done by use of a red of 630,Au and green of
    505 u,u, approximately equal in energy. In general illumination, the
    two stimuli seemed to be of approximately equal stimulating value for
    the female, whereas for the male, the red was the more stimulating.
    A moderate degree of adaptation to darkness reversed this relation,
    the green then being much more stimulating than the red for the female,
    whereas the two were approximately equal for the male.
    This observation indicates at once changing sensitiveness with adaptation
    and an individual, or more likely, a sex, difference in the stimulating
    value of the colors in question. Apparently the male ring-dove
    is markedly more sensitive to red than is the female.
    This report of work which is still in progress may be concluded with
    a word concerning the significance of temperamental differences. In the
    doves in question, these were very striking indeed and are responsible
    for certain important features of the results obtained. The female was
    tame and timid; the male, on the contrary, somewhat wild and bold.
    In view of these facts, it is not surprising that the male proved an
    excellent subject for the sensory habit method, whereas the female was
    much less satisfactory. The suggestion from the work is that temperament
    should be analyzed by the student of animal behavior and its
    various important components separately studied and accurately measured
    so that our animal subjects may be described with respect to the
    same, even although the investigation especially in point be one on
    color vision or some other aspect of reaction or experience which might
    at first seem unrelated to 'temperament.'
    See Yerkes, Robert M. and Watson, John B. Methods of studying vision in animals.
    Behavior Monographs, vol. 1, no. 2. (1911).
    2 Robert M. Yerkes. The dancing mouse. New York, 1907.
    ' This work was made possible by a grant from the Bache Fund of the National Academy,
    for which the writer takes this opportunity to express his hearty thanks.
    119
     
  12. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    Most birds have very sensitive to color eyesight. Movement is what gives you away though. Thats why birds have very gaudy breeding plumage to attract a mate.
     
  13. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    I've been hunting dove for 46 years, and firmly believe that birds (dove included) are not color-blind.
    I also have had too many doves come in and leave a field in the middle and many times leave by the most expeditious route possible when the guns open up on them. I agree the doves aren't the most intelligent birds around, but they do have an entrenched self-preservation instinct and are unpredictible because of it.
    That's what makes hunting them so exciting.

    I believe the doves in the Imperial Valley (SoCal) are quite used to seeing white-shirted farm hands working in the fields, and that's why they don't seem to pay much attention to hunters dressed in bright colors...at least on opening day. After that, they can be much more wary.

    We found a 4foot rattler near one of the guys on Saturday morning. Nine rattles. Makes you think.
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If doves are actually color blind they would be different from other birds. As mentioned above, the color patterns of birds, often striking patterns, allow them to recognize other members of the species and frequently identify the sex of the other member. Usually, the boys are bright and the ladies not so brightly colored.

    There does seem to be a difference in seeing a color and associating that color with danger.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    8 gunners, 8 limits in Ohio. 1 had a orange hat, 3 had white t-shirts, and 3 had straw hats on. Didn't bother the doves, but they all made sure not to move. Depends how bad the doves want into the field, and if cover breaks up your profile. Obviously camo and cover can't hurt. Don't sit in the open, break up your profile.
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    bfd- In this instance, I must defer answering your question to my special adviser, Neil W.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Big Jim: I beg to differ with you. If, as you say, "kill them all" were to become reality, then there would be no more dove hunting. So, like I do my trap shooting, I always let a few survive for breeding purposes. Glad you had such a good hunt. I have given up hunting the last two years... just got tired of "killing", also while liking to eat dove, I am not sure how to kill the West Nile virus. How long do you cook the bird at what temperature?? PS: Hope you left some orange fabric for halloween... Fred
     
  18. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Several years ago there were articles in Field and Stream where they had completed several studies about the doves sight. Their rule number one was never, I repeat, never wear blue. The second rule was to remain still until the bird was within range. Rule number three was hit the bird when you shot. They went on to say that unless you were shooting high flying birds to forget leading the bird, shoot it when it was covered. I don't remember much else of the articles but have applied the above rules and it has worked for me. Jackie B.
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jackie B. - I did not read the Field and Stream article you referenced but I feel very confident that the color perception tests mentioned in the article were nothing more than anecdotal observations.

    Color perception in birds is classically tested using captive birds who must learn to peck on colored levers to get food. They only get food if they peck on the right color. The order of the colors on the levers is changed every few days. This type of testing requires much time, laboratory space and funds.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    The real test of dove's color perception and figure - ground relationships comes on day #2 of the opening season. The birds that are left in the area become real smart and recognize human figures and colors. They fly higher and take different routes to feed and water. This is when the "average" hunter and the "average" dove are tested for intelligence... I usually bet on the dove. Fred
     
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