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BIO Targets and the EPA

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by hmb, Jan 12, 2008.

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  1. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    They like it when you have a plan to protect the environment. They like it even more when you implement the plan. HMB
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Have the local CO-Op check the PH in your soil. They will give you a chart of what you need to do to raise the PH back up that BIO targets lower.

    Keep a document trail of everything you do.
     
  3. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Bio target are a misnomer. They kill the grass. Bio degrade... NOT... we shot them for a few years and stopped about 3 years ago. Our grounds are still WHITE. They move the pH of the soil in the wrong direction to promote lead reclaimination. You have to phosphate to bring the pH back. In short they are not worth fooling with.

    TB
     
  4. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Bio target are a misnomer. They kill the grass. Bio degrade... NOT... we shot them for a few years and stopped about 3 years ago. Our grounds are still WHITE. They move the pH of the soil in the wrong direction to promote lead reclaimination. You have to phosphate to bring the pH back. In short they are not worth fooling with.

    TB
     
  5. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone ever tried to reason with the EPA? They are the largest collection of Blok Heads you will ever deal with. Espically if they are working on Federal property. We hav a single/dual use field on Federal property. They are constantly trying to clode us down. There latest instructions were we cannot cut the grass from the front of the trap house out as the hazard from the lead dust is harmful. These are collage educated folks making decisions for our protection. Goverment gone wild! Jake
     
  6. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    My point is that Bio Targets are really not bio degradable. We stopped using them 2-3 years ago and they are still there. The EPA will not take position one way or the other. The real thing is that you have to have a plan to clean up the lead. No plan and you are in trouble. You have to deal with the negatives of the bio targets in your plan.

    TB
     
  7. ink ball

    ink ball Member

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    I know I sure like shooting the non-biodegradable target better. I like seeing that big puff of black smoke when you center up on a target. The same hit on a biodegradable target just doesn't look as impressive!
     
  8. magic

    magic Member

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    No Ink Ball was as nice as the old Remington Blue Rocks. I hear there are still ink balls hanging somewhere the wind didn't sweep way! LOL

    JASON
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Are some people telling us that pitch targets are more biodegradeable than biodegradeable targets? I think not because ours disappear rather quickly but we still have several feet of pitch targets on our field. Not only that, the bios color is much brighter!!
     
  10. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    bridgetoofar,

    Probably too small of an issue for the EPA to care about.

    I'd contact White Flyer as someone mentioned above. I'd avoid contact with the EPA.
     
  11. porky

    porky TS Member

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    Bio's have a Ph of 3 which turns the soil acidic. The acid in the soil can work with the lead to make the lead water soluable, then the lead can migrate from the source. Water runnoff will move the soluable lead. Clubs that use the Bio's after using the regular pitch target gain nothing because the pitch and other chemicals are still in the ground from the birds shot previously. Clubs that have used the Bio's have had to have lime trucks come in and lime the ground that the birds fall on to raise the Ph back to 7 or neutral (the scale runs from 1 to 14)on the Ph scale. The clubs also stopped using Bio's because of the extra expense.
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Grass has always grown rather poorly on piles of pitch targets. If you want to grow grass on your trapfield throw Bios and bring in the lime. No such solution for pitch target piles except a bulldozer and dump truck-another added expense.

    Last I can remember pellet drop is significantly farther than the target fall zone. Just ask the lead re-claimers!!
     
  13. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Anyone who has targets (pieces or whole) and lead shot falling in the same place on their property either has their springs REALLY wound up or is shooting some very, very, very low-recoil loads............. :) ......in which case, I'd guess all their targets are falling still intact.

    PS Clubs situated in the arid southwest, and that get little rain, may experience a longer degradation period for BIO targets than those clubs that receive normal amounts of precipitation.
     
  14. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I did try to reason with someone from the EPA one time and when I saw the blank stare in her eyes I realized I was not going to get an answer but would probably be fined for asking it, in a round about way ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  15. porky

    porky TS Member

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    I will agree that the majority of shot falls far beyond the target drop zone, but some of the lead ( 7 1/2, 8, 8 1/2 or 9) does drop in the target area from deflection or having the energy spent, etc. To think that this doesn't happen is someone who doesn't have a real grasp on reality. This is causing the problems with the acid conditions of the Bio's. Just running a vehicle over the area where the targets fall will break a lot of them up, at least in the north where the frost can get to them. Down South and in the arid areas are different.
     
  16. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Targets are usually broken with only a few pellet hits. There are over 400 #8 pellets in a typical trap load. Only an extremely small percentage of pellets may in fact strike a target and fall in the immediate area.

    I was actually struck by a pellet as a spectator around 10 ft. behind the 27yd. line. Still not a good reason for disregarding Bio usage!!
     
  17. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    One of the requirements for the issuance of our NPDES environmental permit to shoot over water and wetlands, the Illinois & USEPA required us to develop a "best practices" program which included an environmentally friendly target in addition to non-lead shot and a wad reclamation program.

    We submitted MSDS sheets on the White Flyer Bio and have continued to use the White Flyer Bio for the past 7 years with excellent results. The Bio requires adequate moisture and UV exposure to degrade and we get more than our share outside Chicago.

    Can't say that Bios are anymore expensive than pitch targets.

    For more info, contact me off thread,

    Jay Spitz
     
  18. porky

    porky TS Member

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    Just to clear a couple of things up. The cost of Bio's are the same or approximately. The cost to lime the bird drop zone is the extra expense and it isn't cheap to have a field limed by trucks. To raise the parts per million (PPM) of lead doesn't require a a great deal of lead. Small shot immersed in an acidic area allows for chemical reaction to occur. Soil and water samples can easily be taken in water runoff areas that are downstream from the clubs(read here not on club lands) since lead is in suspension and migrates easily from the point of origin.
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    DEP inspector visited our club and informed us that lead is a mineral that is contained in many rocks and is pervasive throughout the eco-system. Therefore, we can't positively ascertain where the contamination originates.

    I informed him that we make every attempt to contain our shot over land but can't guarantee that some may enter the stream flowing through our property. I also let him know we re-cycle our lead periodically.

    His response was "great, have a good day".

    We switched to Bios and business as usual!!
     
  20. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Go to the EPA web site, there is a list of things to do there that will make them happy. HMB
     
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