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Bio-degradable Targets ??????????????????????

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Ron Burdick, Dec 5, 2011.

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  1. Ron Burdick

    Ron Burdick Active Member

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    What are the pros and cons about using and shooting bio-degradable targets?

    My old club up in NY state is considering shooting these bio-degradable targets because they are about $1.00 per case cheaper.

    They have no other reason other than cost per case to change.

    Ron Burdick
     
  2. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Cons- They are harder to break (less shooter satisfaction). They don't smoke black (less shooter satisfaction). Chips are harder to see (less shooter satisfaction). Combined with moisture, they create sulfuric acid, which will damage your machines and kill every blade of grass in the target piece fall zone. They are hygroscopic, and will not fly true when they collect moisture.

    Pros- At the end of the day, you can go out and collect more unbroken targets than you can with pitch.

    We've only had one club in the area that tried bios, and that was for less than a year. I would not shoot a registered event that was shooting bios, and would not be happy shooting practice with bios either.

    Unless you are legally required to shoot bios, don't.

    If you want cheaper targets, order Lawrys.
     
  3. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Better color and break beautiful. May be slightly more erratic in flight. Never killed our grass but we're pretty wet in the drop zone. Most people never know they're shooting 'em. Puffs of white smoke when hit with individuat pellets are more easily seen by shooters who then believe they're hard to break. If you want to buy a target that's hard to break go Federal!!
     
  4. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Lawry is a better target then Flyer Bios...
     
  5. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Also, the sulfuric acid created by the targets will leach into the soil and ground water. This, combined with lead shot (which is basically inert in pH neutral soil), will cause the lead to leach into your soil and ground water as well, which could cause issues down the line.
     
  6. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    If you want to lose shooters, use them.
     
  7. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Ron,

    Greetings! Are you able to buy a full trailer load (23 pallets) at a time?

    Jon Reitz
     
  8. maka

    maka Member

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    In NE WI. number of clubs either shot them or did. They do kill grass in drop zone. Suppost to use lime to nutralize the acidity. In cold weather they seem to freeze, especilly if you had a lot of hummidity or rain in fall. As a result shooters get a lot of dusters. Do not claim to be an expert on this subject. These are just my personal observations. Good Luck.
     
  9. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing the savings on the targets will be far less than the cost of the lime to neutralize the soil, let alone the time and labor to distribute it...
     
  10. Classic Trap

    Classic Trap TS Member

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    I shoot at a club that throws White Flyer Bio. They have thrown them for several years. You get use to them and they are a good target. They fly true are uniform in weight. They do "smoke" but not that satisfying rolling black ball we all like. Chips are no harder to see ( a very subjective statement ). I think they are a hard target, and shoot 7 1/2 heavy at 27 yards. It has taken some time for me to get use to them. I have compared practrice averages on both types of targets and there is no significant difference in my averages over three years and thousands of targets.

    I shoot them because that's what's thrown. I would prefer the regular White Flyer because I do like boiling balls of black smoke. Having said that, no one here really pays any attention to the issue any more.

    I supose I would have grumbles when when we went from glass balls clay targets.
     
  11. CharlieAMA

    CharlieAMA TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    We shot the bios' here at Amarillo for about a year, because of cost, and that's all we could get locally. They were hard to break, alot of unbroken ones out in the field. The worst problem was the dust and pieces they leave in the pat traps. More maintenance, breakdowns etc. We shoot all pitch White Flyers now. That was our experience. Charlie Henderson
     
  12. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    My experience is the same as Skeet Man's. We used to throw them at an Issac Walton League range and we got rid of them quickly for the reasons given above.

    They suck in my never humble opinion.
     
  13. cottondoctor

    cottondoctor Member

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    Pros: none (IMO)
    Cons: as stated above - softer-not as much smoke- no black smoke---if moisture content is up a little the bio will take more pellet strikes to break than pitch targets—
    Biggest cons to me--- where ever the target (or target pieces) strikes the ground it greatly lowers soil pH and can kill grass (for a long time nothing will grow there unless you apply lots of lime) -
    AND – if your machine is located in a humid region on the country – and you leave targets in the machine for extended periods – or leave target dust on the machine for extended periods--- it will literally eat your machine up (rust). I personally would not put bios, or I should say the bios I am familiar with, in a machine that I have invested in.
     
  14. trim tab

    trim tab Active Member

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    Skeet man and 3200 are correct. Started with Bios and switching over to pitch. I twill eat up your machine and if you spend any time in the trap house with Bios you will sure smell the sulphuric acid.

    DO NOT THROW BIOS UNLESS YOU ARE MANDATED TO.
     
  15. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    My home club (Buncombe Co. Wildlife.) has been throwing bio's for about 2 years. thus far, other than putting a load of lime down once a year to neutralize the soil, I can see no serious disadvantage. They fly just fine, I'm your typical picky 27 yard shooter and if they didn't fly OK we wouldn't be throwing them...

    The shooters who come to our registered shoots have not said a word. As a matter of fact, most of them come to our shoots because we set really good targets right by the ATA rule book. We use a radar gun (Pocket Radar of course!) and a digital angle meter to set the angle of the target off the trap plate. All 3 fields are identical. (Its worth the effort ...shooters like the good targets.)

    As far as machines go, we have 3 Pat Traps and our club manager has been instructed to blow them clean with a leaf blower once a month and clean the dust off with a wisk brush. I have not seen any evidence of undue corrosion or abrasion as of yet.

    Our grass looks fine. The target landing area is mowed and seems to be green and healthy.

    We store our targets in a dry shed and moisture absorption has not seemed to be an issue. Our trap houses hold about 30 cases of targets and we go through them fairly fast so they don't get a chance to get too moist.

    If you're worried about seeing little chips I suggest you hit the targets a bit harder...white smoke balls are easy to see.

    Bob Schultz
     
  16. FRedmon

    FRedmon Active Member

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    This was posted several years ago on this site when the bio issue was hot and heavy. I had to keep it and share it with you folks... It is the American way..

    Top Ten Ways that a Lawry Target can actually be shot.

    1 – In the HOT Summer.

    2 – When it has not rained in about 1 month.

    3 – When the targets don’t stick together.

    4 - When the targets are actually round.

    5 – If you can see the poorly painted things.

    6 – If you Stand on top of the trap house.

    7 – If you find it easier to shoot them when they are orange on top and black underneath.

    8 – If the machine isn’t clogged with broken targets.

    9 – Everyone on the squad shoots at the same time at the HARD target.

    10 – You can still afford to shoot after the American Target Business that you work for has gone belly up because the Canadian Company Lawry’s sold their targets for no profit just to undercut you.

    FRedmon

    PS - I have no horse in the race......
     
  17. Allen-MX8

    Allen-MX8 Member

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    Bio's are o.k. as a target generally, but sure NOT o.k. when it comes to the effect they have on the trap machine.

    My club used them for about a year until we started getting a lot of broken targets and found out that the bios were leaving a residue on the plate of our Pat Trap. We had to keep that residue sanded off which, of course, created more work for the trap help (ME!!).

    We switched back to pitch targets and rarely a broken target now and our shooters like the pitch ones better.

    Allen
     
  18. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I am an EXPERT on throwing the White Flyer Bio having been an early adopter dues to our environmental permit. Having thrown the Bio for the past 11 years, I can state unequivocally that issues regarding land management and equipment are well over blown... unless the laws of chemistry just do not apply to my plot of land?!

    I don't think any region in the Continental US gets more moisture than Metro Chicago on a regular basis. Our Bios degrade well and after 11 years I haven't had to clean one debris pile - that saves me $1000s from having to rent a bobcat and container. We keep our Bios and trap equipment dry and clean
    and have NEVER experienced the Sulfuric acid issues other clubs seem to be inundated by. We don't lime - never had a reason to do so in 11 years...

    I have my adjacent pond water tested monthly with reports off to the EPA, we get run off all the time - no pH issues, fish kill or anything to suggest that degrading Bio targets are affecting the water quality or wildlife... Further... we actually have issues in keeping the drop fall zone undergrowth under control...

    As far as breakage... maybe the targets are bit harder and yes they don't make black puff balls... for us that's a non-issue, most of us shoot at night anyway and under the lights, the white puff balls look really cool..., but coupled with shooting steel shot - I would expect we should be picking up cases upon cases of unbroken birds based upon comments from naysayers.

    I suppose one argument in favor of rock hard, impossible to break targets is that we get little incidental breakage - next to nothing...

    Maybe the clubs having issues need to manage their property and equipment and supplies a little better and shooters complaining of lower scores, practice more... I'm at 2 million Bios and counting... just a range in Fantasyland...

    Jay Spitz
     
  19. Hill topper

    Hill topper Member

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    Jay you said one thing we can agree with.

    If you are living in Chicago, you are living in "fantasy land"
    Really surprised that you are not experiencing vegetation problems.
    May be the result of the "political climate" you live under.

    One thing no one has mentioned is bio targets will burn.
    If you have a skeetfield overlayed on your trap field, don't let anyone burn the target boxes where the ground is litered with pieces.
    You will likely be fighting a grass fire.

    Before you say that no one does such a thing, the target boxes are burnt in front of the trap houses at the completion of each days shooting at the Missouri Shoot.

    ed, former downstate Ill shooter.
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    What Bob Schultz said!!
     
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