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Big Dogs Shoot Faster

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by OLD ONE EYE, Oct 31, 2007.

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  1. OLD ONE EYE

    OLD ONE EYE Well-Known Member

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    I was following the thread on Big Dogs dominating handicap from 27 yards. Which got me to thinking about my watching the Bid Dogs shoot both 16 and 27 yard targets. I would say most of the Big boys shoot quite fast breaking the birds sooner than the adverage shooter. I believe this is a combination of ability and training to pick up the bird and break it asap. I sometimes marvel at how they can pick up a bird and lock on it so fast creating a dense black ink ball. I am now trying to shoot the bird faster to see if over time it I can improve my scores. I have to mention doubles I do not shoot them but am going to start and after watching the better double shooters they sure shoot faster than most adverage shooters. I can here the bang bang versis the bang bang I got on my first attempt hoping that practice and more shooting will improve my speed. I never saw Britt Robinson shoot but I have heard stories of his speed of shooting and was wondering what the TS .com followers think about this method of shooting realizing some shooters have exceptional eye sight and reflexes which is a gift not a aquired skill.
     
  2. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    I watched Harlan Campbell shoot some time ago and was impressed with his speed. It wasn't until much later that I found out (from another "big dog" who knows him well enough) that Harlan is fast because he's a trap reader. He shoots with the same people all the time and any of them can rather accurately guesstimate where the next target is going to go. Since they've taken most of the uncertainty out of target acquisition, they can be faster than mere mortals.

    Morgan
     
  3. buzzgun

    buzzgun Member

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    Actually, "somebody told me" the big dogs pay the trap girls for 25s...is that true? I heard it somewhere...
     
  4. canada

    canada Member

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    If you think that jumping all over a target will improve your scores you're wrong. A few of the better shooters maybe shoot quickly, but if they enjoy any success, then they have to be smooth shooters as well. They shoot when the bird is where it should be in relation to their bead, and will still take an extra split second to get a good look at it.

    Trying to shoot fast will be a disaster. You will start to jump the targets, and scores will go down rather than up. In time, as a result of not having to think about aiming, and really knowing the path of each and every target, by having shot them several thousands of times, you will naturally speed up.

    As far as Harlan reading the trap? Thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Stick your head in a trap and tell me how it is possible to read it. It pauses while it oscilates.

    Pat Lamont
     
  5. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Yes, thats true! We do shoot faster!
     
  6. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    hairy, no i did not read it but i have slowed down alot. my 2008 average is now 91.33 vs 85 for last year.
     
  7. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    <I>"As far as Harlan reading the trap? Thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Stick your head in a trap and tell me how it is possible to read it. It pauses while it oscilates."</I>

    Whatever you say, Pat. But I've been told the same thing by more than one reliable source.

    I've been to a Campbell school and I've experienced how he teaches. Some of what he taught didn't make a lot of sense to me until another pro noticed some of the techniques I was using, matched them to Harlan, and explained to me why they work for him but not for me. You can believe whatever makes you happy.

    Morgan
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Most traps are rather simple to read correctly 90% of the time. Since you get 2 FTFs on each 25 birds that brings you up to About 98%.

    It's not necessary to read the trap in doubles, so inorder to get really fast, you need to shoot the first bird with your left eye and the second bird with your right eye. It takes a little practice, but once you learn how, you can get really fast. HMB
     
  9. buzzgun

    buzzgun Member

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    Capt. Morgan,


    Since you've asserted that "another pro" revealed to you that Harlan Campbell reads traps, and you had no problem revealing Harlan's name...surely you'll have no problem with telling us who this "other pro" is...


    ...correct?
     
  10. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    there is no pro's in our sport is there?
     
  11. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Not a lot of prose, either.
     
  12. cheeseburger646

    cheeseburger646 TS Member

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    i like your thinking here. but i have to say you are off a bit. the big boys have been shooting for almost 25 to 30 years. they have learned the motion and they can do it faster than everyone becasue of the million rounds they have shot. dont try to shoot faster you will see that you will miss right under them. if you have a really high shooting gun then shooting faster might help. then again the big boys do have a high shooting gun. the more you parctice the better you will get. move at your speed and over time you will shoot faster because the confidence is there and you know the motion too.

    sincerly one of the big boys
     
  13. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Old One Eye:

    Big dogs aren't good because they shoot fast. They shoot fast because they are good. They got good by mastering the fundamentals and techniques of the sport.

    If you are serious about improving YOUR game, forget about shooting faster and concentrate on perfecting the fundamentals. If you have the talent and put in the work, speed will come on its own.

    sissy
     
  14. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    buzzgun wrote:

    <I>"Since you've asserted that "another pro" revealed to you that Harlan Campbell reads traps, and you had no problem revealing Harlan's name...surely you'll have no problem with telling us who this "other pro" is...</I>

    Not at all. Both Nora Ross-Martin and Randy Martin told me the same thing at separate times during a clinic I took with them 2 summers ago. It was in reference to Harlan's practice of holding a high gun and soft-focusing even higher, a technique I could not get to work for me. When I explained to Nora what I was trying to do during a drill she gave me a broad smile and said simply "That won't work for you because Harlan's a trap reader." Each explained to me that the reason it worked for Harlan is that he doesn't have to cover a very wide area visually to pick up the target.

    Morgan
     
  15. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    That's probably why Harlan never wins a shoot-off. Since he's not shooting with his regular squad he can't read the trap! LOL

    Scott
     
  16. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    If you hold a high gun to minimize gun movement and look back to the house picking up the target as it emerges you will break targets a lot sooner. Depending on the post, you already know pretty much where the target is going to emerge. It takes talent and practice to shoot this way. Most guys are looking for the "bird/bead relationship" before they shoot and that is why they aren't and won't be big dogs. However, that is how the average shooter needs to shoot to break targets.

    With almost a quarter million registered targets shot, do you really think Harlan Campbell needs to read a trap? He really doesn't care where the target is headed because he is going to hit it. Reading traps is myth and if you think you can do it, you are a true nutjob.
     
  17. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    "Reading" a trap is not really a matter of reading, but rather "managing" the trap. With a good squad it's possible to increase the likelihood of avoiding hard right or left birds. A well timed squad will run in time with the machine, when it starts throwing a hard right or left the next shooter needs to allow a little more time (2 sec?) for the machine to return to the center and then call for the bird or shoot quicker one target. The idea is not to try and guess whether the next bird will repeat a hard angle, but rather to try and keep the machine throwing center targets as much as possible. If you are keeping the machine in the middle, a hard angle is only a slight surprise. If you try and guess a repeat hard right and you get a hard left, you are likely to miss. This plan only works on some machines, like the old hand-set ones they had at the Grand previously, and requires a good squad. The new Pat traps like at the Grand have a faster cycle and are harder, but the principles still apply. AJ
     
  18. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    I have it on good authority that Harlan does in fact read the trap.

    But.................Only when he is shooting doubles. (;-)


    Hauxfan!
     
  19. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    <I>"If you hold a high gun to minimize gun movement and look back to the house picking up the target as it emerges you will break targets a lot sooner. ... However, that is how the average shooter needs to shoot to break targets."</I>

    Again, I have no interest in arguing preferences in technique with you.

    Harlan teaches that the gun barrel should be held approximately level with the ground above the house roof and that the eyes should never be dropped below the barrel because it disconnects the eyes from the gun and forces the shooter to re-establish that peripheral visual connection with it before firing. He wants the eye contact to be kept higher than the barrel into the area where the shooter sees the target "clear and whole". This seriously reduces useful peripheral vision so he apparently relies on some other information to locate and kill the target quickly.

    Morgan
     
  20. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    Fast does not necessarily equal success. I've watched plenty of very fast shooters crash and burn on a windy day when the target path fools them or deviated from what they expected. Until you have a visual lock on the target there is no need to pull/release the trigger. Very few targets can outrun the shot.

    As far as Harlan I've watched him everywhere from The Grand to a small local club. To say he reads the trap is ridiculous because that brings in an element of chance. At his level he leaves nothing to chance. He doesn't need to guess. Very rarely does a target fool him. His talent is obvious based on precise, smooth moves to the target. I also don't think he shoots exceptionally quick but he is very deliberate.

    Smash Em,

    Jerry
     
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