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Beyond the 27 at Sparta

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Bisi, Aug 14, 2007.

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  1. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    The Grand at Sparta has a lot of room behind the traps. Isn’t it about time we think about adding a few yards of concrete behind a bank or 2 of those traps. This would be for shooters who earn yardage at Grand and only at the Grand.

    Let’s suppose you are a 25 yard line shooter now. You show up at the Grand and get squaded with shooters on the 27. Your first handicap you are on, and shoot a 96. You receive a half yard punch. Squad leader on 27 yard line shoots a 97 and receives a yard honorary punch. You come back the next day, the guy who beat you is still on 27 and you are now on 25.5 yard line. You shoot another 96 that day and squad leader beats you again with a 98 and receives 1.5 yard honorary punch. 3rd day you are now on 26 yard line and squad leader is still on 27. That day you shoot a 97 and receive a yard but squad leader shoots a 98 and receives another 1.5 yard honorary punch. The fourth day you are both on 27 and the guy who is squad leader has beaten you every day. You have had to move back but he is still on the same yardage.

    What brings this up? I have just been looking at the “Budweiser Handicap”. Of the 130 shooters who received “punches” 78 were on the 27 yard line and they received honorary yardage. The top 12 places in the “Budweiser” were taken by 27 yard line shooters.

    I know the good shooters are always going to win, but this is suppose to be a handicap event. The idea of a “handicap” event is to supposedly give everyone a chance to compete.

    If we have a few banks with a 29 or 30 yard line this could accommodate those shooters now receiving honorary punches. This would only be for earned yardage received at the current year Grand. Even if you received honorary yardage during the year you would still start at the 27 during the Grand. The first time you received a punch at the Grand you would go back. At end of Grand you go back to local shoots and stay on 27.

    Look up the earned yardage on the ATA site. Some of these guys are getting “honorary” punches every day at the Grand.

    These long yardage banks, would also give us an opportunity to highlight our top shooters. You would know where the big dogs, or hot shooters are shooting. I would go every day to those banks to see who was shooting from the 30. It would give us mortal shooters a place to congregate like we did at the old CEB in Ohio. A place to see and be seen.

    Now, tell me why it can’t be done, or why it wouldn’t work.
     
  2. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    Everyone has said for years that the current Handicap system is broke, this is jusy another GOOD example. My thought if added pads are good for the Grand it is good for everywhere else. I am sure this "27yd" pattern of high scores will not only continue here but else where.

    GS
     
  3. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Think about it for a minute. Sparta is a brand new facility, biggest in the world and they stopped at the 27 yard line. There are no plans and certainly no vision by the ATA to ever extend the concrete further than that.

    MR
     
  4. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

    Joined:
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    The same argument is made in skeet change the game and the same people will win...

    Ronbo
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    If you want the yardage increased it has to be done everywhere. Top yardage used to be 25.

    There are a significant number of clubs that physically can not make the longer yardages possible. This may be because of proximity of fields, or building interference or other physical problems.

    If you want to decide the event by special contest, have them shoot off in doubles from yardage. Yep, dumb. No dumber than 30 yard shooting at only one or 2 places and the rest 27.

    The only answer is to make the game more difficult with wider angles and faster targets.

    But not till I get my ear plugs in.

    HM
     
  6. C H S

    C H S TS Member

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    My guess would be that there's a limit to how far back you can move most people that they'll still be able to break a clay target with a shotgun using reasonable loads before they have to switch to rifles.

    Andy
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    "The people that make the rules are the 27 yard shooters. Tom"

    True, and quite a few of those need to take their earned reductions also but that just ain't happening either. Making targets more difficult is out of the question.

    A couple more yards of concrete? No way would that solve much with the gun/ammo improvements and the easier angled/shorter distance rule change. Attracting more shooters to the sport with the exception of the SCTP program isn't too high on the delegates priority list. Standing at the same yardage as the top 1% is evidently the reason.

    If target distance/speed was put back into the game as it once was, look at all the extra registered targets those guys would shoot trying to maintain. It would also take away some of the notions new shooters have of having to be perfect to stand a chance at a possible win too. MHO Hap
     
  8. maltzahn

    maltzahn Active Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Creston, IA
    What most whiners don't realize is there are more loosers on the 27 than the 25 in any big shoot.

    Maltzie
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    Do I hear an echo!!
     
  10. grammie

    grammie TS Member

    Joined:
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    658
    Again,,,,and Again,,,,the problem will not be solved by more concrete!!! But instead,,,,what is needed is "real targets",,,,and what is needed is one uniform shell requirement!!!!!

    Its a lot cheaper and wiser to simply throw what is considered "tougher targets"!!!!

    I know,,I know,,All the AA shooters weaned off soft two hole targets would drop down to B class!!!! And then would cut back on their shooting because they can't run 100 straight anymore!!!!

    But then again,,,,,many clubs just to keep shooters coming back completly dis-regard ATA mandates and throw what the old men want....or worse yet,,,,managment that takes it upon itself to set one trap long,,one short,,one high,,one low and then say---"we did it to make it a little tougher for the shooters"!!!!

    Instead of remaining "Amatuers" for the lifespan of the organization,,and ended up with nothing after 105 years,,,,Everyone of you should be about the integrity of the game,,,after all,,,it is Trapshooting!!!!! Too many have forgot that,,,,and too many have forgotten----Trapshooting is supposed to be 'competitive' and 100 straigts in D class was never meant to be!!!!! When something is made easier,,,,only the sport itself suffers...........

    AKA Grammie...........
     
  11. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,399
    The Grand at Sparta has a lot of room behind the traps. Isn’t it about time we think about adding a few yards of concrete behind a bank or 2 of those traps. This would be for shooters who earn yardage at Grand and only at the Grand.

    Let’s suppose you are a 25 yard line shooter now. You show up at the Grand and get squaded with shooters on the 27. Your first handicap you are on, and shoot a 96. You receive a half yard punch. Squad leader on 27 yard line shoots a 97 and receives a yard honorary punch. You come back the next day, the guy who beat you is still on 27 and you are now on 25.5 yard line. You shoot another 96 that day and squad leader beats you again with a 98 and receives 1.5 yard honorary punch. 3rd day you are now on 26 yard line and squad leader is still on 27. That day you shoot a 97 and receive a yard but squad leader shoots a 98 and receives another 1.5 yard honorary punch. The fourth day you are both on 27 and the guy who is squad leader has beaten you every day. You have had to move back but he is still on the same yardage.

    What brings this up? I have just been looking at the “Budweiser Handicap”. Of the 130 shooters who received “punches” 78 were on the 27 yard line and they received honorary yardage. The top 12 places in the “Budweiser” were taken by 27 yard line shooters.

    I know the good shooters are always going to win, but this is suppose to be a handicap event. The idea of a “handicap” event is to supposedly give everyone a chance to compete.

    If we have a few banks with a 29 or 30 yard line this could accommodate those shooters now receiving honorary punches. This would only be for earned yardage received at the current year Grand. Even if you received honorary yardage during the year you would still start at the 27 during the Grand. The first time you received a punch at the Grand you would go back. At end of Grand you go back to local shoots and stay on 27.

    Look up the earned yardage on the ATA site. Some of these guys are getting “honorary” punches every day at the Grand.

    These long yardage banks, would also give us an opportunity to highlight our top shooters. You would know where the big dogs, or hot shooters are shooting. I would go every day to those banks to see who was shooting from the 30. It would give us mortal shooters a place to congregate like we did at the old CEB in Ohio. A place to see and be seen.

    Now, tell me why it can’t be done, or why it wouldn’t work.
     
  12. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,730
    Everyone has said for years that the current Handicap system is broke, this is jusy another GOOD example. My thought if added pads are good for the Grand it is good for everywhere else. I am sure this "27yd" pattern of high scores will not only continue here but else where.

    GS
     
  13. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    Think about it for a minute. Sparta is a brand new facility, biggest in the world and they stopped at the 27 yard line. There are no plans and certainly no vision by the ATA to ever extend the concrete further than that.

    MR
     
  14. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,038
    The same argument is made in skeet change the game and the same people will win...

    Ronbo
     
  15. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    If you want the yardage increased it has to be done everywhere. Top yardage used to be 25.

    There are a significant number of clubs that physically can not make the longer yardages possible. This may be because of proximity of fields, or building interference or other physical problems.

    If you want to decide the event by special contest, have them shoot off in doubles from yardage. Yep, dumb. No dumber than 30 yard shooting at only one or 2 places and the rest 27.

    The only answer is to make the game more difficult with wider angles and faster targets.

    But not till I get my ear plugs in.

    HM
     
  16. C H S

    C H S TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    244
    My guess would be that there's a limit to how far back you can move most people that they'll still be able to break a clay target with a shotgun using reasonable loads before they have to switch to rifles.

    Andy
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    "The people that make the rules are the 27 yard shooters. Tom"

    True, and quite a few of those need to take their earned reductions also but that just ain't happening either. Making targets more difficult is out of the question.

    A couple more yards of concrete? No way would that solve much with the gun/ammo improvements and the easier angled/shorter distance rule change. Attracting more shooters to the sport with the exception of the SCTP program isn't too high on the delegates priority list. Standing at the same yardage as the top 1% is evidently the reason.

    If target distance/speed was put back into the game as it once was, look at all the extra registered targets those guys would shoot trying to maintain. It would also take away some of the notions new shooters have of having to be perfect to stand a chance at a possible win too. MHO Hap
     
  18. maltzahn

    maltzahn Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Creston, IA
    What most whiners don't realize is there are more loosers on the 27 than the 25 in any big shoot.

    Maltzie
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    Do I hear an echo!!
     
  20. grammie

    grammie TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    658
    Again,,,,and Again,,,,the problem will not be solved by more concrete!!! But instead,,,,what is needed is "real targets",,,,and what is needed is one uniform shell requirement!!!!!

    Its a lot cheaper and wiser to simply throw what is considered "tougher targets"!!!!

    I know,,I know,,All the AA shooters weaned off soft two hole targets would drop down to B class!!!! And then would cut back on their shooting because they can't run 100 straight anymore!!!!

    But then again,,,,,many clubs just to keep shooters coming back completly dis-regard ATA mandates and throw what the old men want....or worse yet,,,,managment that takes it upon itself to set one trap long,,one short,,one high,,one low and then say---"we did it to make it a little tougher for the shooters"!!!!

    Instead of remaining "Amatuers" for the lifespan of the organization,,and ended up with nothing after 105 years,,,,Everyone of you should be about the integrity of the game,,,after all,,,it is Trapshooting!!!!! Too many have forgot that,,,,and too many have forgotten----Trapshooting is supposed to be 'competitive' and 100 straigts in D class was never meant to be!!!!! When something is made easier,,,,only the sport itself suffers...........

    AKA Grammie...........
     
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