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****Best/Worst Pro Clinics??****

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by chipdaddy, Feb 19, 2009.

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  1. chipdaddy

    chipdaddy Member

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    Hey everybody, just trying to get some info on the best pro shooting clinics to attend. I don't want to go to a clinic that is a power point presentation or a clinic just to hear about the teachers accomplishments. I want to shoot some actual targets and get some legitimate advice. Not to concerned about location, although I am in the Northwest part of the country. Any advice anyone has on any worthwhile clinics would be great. No BS, I need some damn help with this sport!
     
  2. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    Britt Robinson!!
     
  3. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    Nora Ross, Leo Harrison, Harlan Campbell, Kay Ohye, Phil Kiner Britt Robinson and Phil Ross all get high recommendations over the years. (I am sure there are many others and you can pick up pointers from any good instructor,,,,YOU just have to apply it,,,,is there a particular weakness you have or a certain thing you want to improve on i.e. gun fit, caps, eye problems,,,,might be easier for particular recommendations based on

    It is pretty hard to put on a trap shooting clinic in the classroom.
     
  4. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you want Phil Ross!
     
  5. blackfoot

    blackfoot Member

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    My Vote:
    1.Phil
    2.Harlan
     
  6. Ken X

    Ken X TS Member

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    More than one person I know said Kaye spent WAAAAYYYYY too much time talking about HIS past accomplishments and not about improving yours!
     
  7. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    Husband and I taken clinics from both Harlan and Nora and my comments are NOT based on the fact that Nora and I are both female.

    Harlan is a great shooter; there's no question. But he wants his students to learn to shoot his way. E.g. he had me raise the POI of my gun 1/8 inch of comb height until it shot 100% high. I struggled with it for 2 days. He said I'd get used to it; I put it back where it was. Harlan also seems to prefer teaching 2-eyed shooters; one-eyed shooters seem to stump him.

    Nora will do her best to work within your style after she addresses any bad habits or deficiencies she might notice. If you like a flat-shooting gun, she'll work with that. She (and Randy) is equally capable of working with 2-eye or 1-eye shooters and are able to tell when a 2-eye shooter is cross-firing and should switch to 1 eye.

    We much preferred the Nora/Randy clinic.

    Carol Lister
     
  8. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Nora Ross and Frank Hoppe - both very good teachers

    Kay Ohye is passionate and will chew you out if you do not follow instructions. That pisses some people off. He like to brag a bit - but he also has done it all.

    You will learn something at any clinic you attend. At least I have.

    Don
     
  9. Gregg535

    Gregg535 Member

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    Leo is a good teacher who can spot many things just by watching you shoot a few targets --- plus he is a very friendly guy.
     
  10. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Phil Ross is a good friend of mine, but I think I can be objective. I've never seen an individual who can so quickly tell the shooter where and why he or she missed the shot and how to correct that miss, where and how to stand on each station, and where a particular gun is shooting. Phil doesn't try to change one's style, but works to make every student consistent. He is also the master at explaining the mental game and competitive requisites in trap and is just as strong in explaining the stuff that is bread and butter and can be quantified. Those who have worked with Phil consider him the best. Uncanny.

    Phil also has a new book on the market that not only talks about techniques in shooting, but gives a great overview of the dynamics and history in our wonderful sport. His book, to me, was not a substitute for his clinic, but a great companion for enjoyment and solidification of ideas taught in the clinic.
     
  11. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Before I took Shootlow's class, I never knew you had to bow to the instructor before every round and again when you were finished. But I do now.

    At least taking his class, he told me that close counts as good as a hit. I thought that was just in hand grenades and horse shoes.

    He said that if I see dust, that was good enough, as he wasn't going to wait all day for me to hit a bird.

    I also had no idea that I had to clean his shotgun everyday and polish his shoes too.

    Shootlow is a hard taskmaster, but he is really a good shot. He tells me he never misses. Don't believe it, just ask him. ;)

    Hauxfan!
     
  12. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Chipdaddy, why don't you ask that you be PM ed with the info about specific instructors. You may get more truthful and personal information that way, many people on here don't want to be negative about the instructors methods or what they didn't like about their teaching style. Being a great shot doesn't always make a great instructor, what you want is who will help you become a great shot! I have never had a clinic, but Dean DeBow and Dave DeBerry, with Dennis DeVault Industries, really gave me really good shooting instructions. Biff
     
  13. Patrick Haskins

    Patrick Haskins Member

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    I have taken clinics from Phil Kiner and Leo.
    Phil is a professor of the game. He studies everything about it and imparts that knowledge to you. He uses video of you shooting to show you what you did wrong and will give you tons to digest and work on. If you follow his advice and work at it, you will become a better shooter.
    Leo is master at the game of trap. I joked with him that I didn't really want him for a teacher, I wanted his grandfather, who taught Leo. Leo has a wealth of knowledge and insight and can articulate what you need to do to improve. He also uses video, but in a differant manner than Phil.
    I took more than one clinic from both of these legends. If I see either of them at a shoot, they always ask how I am shooting and if I am having a problem. I know that you cannot find better than these two to analyze your shooting and help you improve. Additionally, they are both extremely nice people.
    PS. When I took my first clinic from Leo, Randy Ross was working with him. Randy seemed to be able to get me on target very quickly and with little effort.
    Pat Haskins
     
  14. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    I have taken clinics from Frank Hoppe (once), Phil Kiner (twice), and Britt Robinson (twice). I can heartily recommend any of the three, although some may wonder why I'm still a mediocre shot.

    Phil makes good use of video in his clinics. Britt typically limits his students to five per class, preferably about the same proficiency level, where Phil and Frank take ten per class.

    Of the three we have scheduled at our club, the one I get asked to schedule again and again is Britt.
     
  15. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

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    Dean DeBow and myself will be doing clinics together starting this year. All the information is currently on DeVault Industries web site listed above. Our first clinic has already been scheduled for the Buffalo Gun Glub in Minnisota this May. There are three more clinics scheduled for the spring and we will be posting those locations and dates later this month.

    Dennis DeVault
     
  16. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    One of our regular posters is still scheduled for several Frank Little clinics in the future. I won't mention his name but he's from NJ. He fully expects to be AAA and is practicing diligently in anticipation of their next meeting. I'm sure he refers to Mr. Little as his finest instructor!!
     
  17. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I really like Biffs response. I believe it is totally in good faith to brag up the good ones on here in public but I do not believe it is a good thing to downgarde any of them on here
     
  18. rich-s

    rich-s TS Member

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    Britt was here in Idaho a couple years back. Just a down to earth good guy. I haven't taken a Kiner course, but he called me on his nickel to talk to me about one-eye two-eye shooting. He owed me nothing, therefore, he must be a hell of a good guy.
     
  19. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    I have been fighting the urge to make any comments here but I have to. Having taught clinics; I have a bit of a different insight to a Clinic or lessons.


    1. It depends on what your level of expertise is and how long you have been shooting. Some Instructors are better with beginners and others excel with advanced students.


    2. How you learn! Not to be smart here but some people are slower than others. One student can watch someone demonstrate how to do something correctly once and get it right.(women tend to be better students in this respect) Others need a coach to hold there hand the whole time. The third group need to be yelled at by a drill instructor.


    3. The shooters expectations of the instructor and the clinic. All to often a shooter expects a dramatic increase in proficiency immediately. (after all they expect to win their state championships this year. This is what I would call wrong thinking. Goals are very important! They however need to be realistic and obtainable. A few target improvement for a C class shooter may be realistic: for the A class shooter 1/2 a target per hundred could be considered significant and that takes months to obtain in many instances.


    4. Special needs! Does your gun fit? Do you have any Vision issues, prescription, eye dominance, or are you a one eye shooter. These are serious issues which need to be addressed. Many of the "Pro's" tend to ignore this point. A few take the bull by the horns and address it right away. I have to commend them. If you have any of the problems listed above you may need a specialist in certain shooting related problems. If it is a visual issue I know that Dr. Frank Rively is the only Licensed Eye Doctor in the country offering his time for private shooting lessons and I can highly recommend him.( he is a AA/AA/27 yrd shooter and makes his own lenses for the shooting community ) A word about Gunfitting my specialty. Just because a Shooter is an instructor that doesn't make him a Gunfitter: most are capable of adjusting a stock to a correct impact for trap shooting. That does not mean that your gun fits or is fitted to you. 80 % of the time should be close but if you fall in to the 20% who are hard to fit you will need to see a specialist in gunfitting. Besides myself I can only recommend Dennis Devault. It is unfortunate but there really seems to be a void in the trapshooting world of really good experienced Gunfitter/Stockmakers who understand gun dynamics and this sport.



    5. How much money does one have to spend on instruction and why are you going. I see a lot of people I feel like to hang around with the Big Dogs. If your one of them and can afford it, by all means take a Harlan, Kay, and Leo clinic. Sorry Leo I listed them alphabetically and not offend any of you. I know both Kay and Harlan. Their both knowledgeable instructors. Their style is a bit different but they teach the same things and you will get out what you put in to their courses.



    Trap shooting abounds with the clinic approach to instruction and this alone I find fault with. It's pure economics you can always make more from a group of 5 to 10 people than you can from any one over the same period of time.
    I started with an English background in Shooting Instruction. Shooting English Springer Spaniel Field Trials when I was 14 and took lessons at that time from Rex Gage. I shot a lot of trap in my teens but just practicing for shooting Live Birds. When Sporting Clays came across the pond in the 80's it became my sport of preference. Please excuse my digression but I have a point to make. In Sporting Clays there is much more private instruction than in Trap. Most of the instruction I do or see in Sporting Clays is private lessons. It is my opinion that in most instances you can not learn as much from a clinic as you can from taking 4 or 5 hours of private lessons over a several month period of time. It's probably best to take a clinic first and then some private instruction. Named Pro shooters cannot accommodate you in this way unless you live close to them or you travel quite a bit.


    When you choose an instructor make sure you feel they will be accessible to you several times a year and available for questions when they arise. In this respect I have to commend Phil Kiner who is often willing to take a phone call even from non paying shooters. If you pay that instructor and you have a problem you have earned the right to ask them a question: just don't over do it. They don't need to hear from you about every shoot. They can't afford to. They also won't be available when you need them if you keep calling them for no reason.


    In summation I would say any Pro instructor who has been at it full time for a period of 5 or so years will have something to offer you. You should look at some of the shooters they have worked with and ask questions as to how they helped them. Any information on the performance of their prior students should be a help. Some like Kay and Harlan I know have produced All Americans out of shooters that have taken their clinics.Find one who regularly teaches in your area or you are able to travel and see them see several times. Everyone almost everyone I know gets more from their second Clinic or lesson than they do the first.

    If you are unwilling to make the commitment to see an instructor several times; then save your money get a few books or videos ( there are a lot of good ones out there ) and spend the money on extra practice.


    If you want me to give you a recommendation of who to see PM me with your needs and expectations and I will try to make an unbiased recommendation of some one in your part of the country.

    Joe Goldberg
     
  20. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Leo is watching all the time even after the clinic{so is Karla}. At the Great lakes grand he knew my scores for two or three days and offered yet more good advice. He works hard with every shooter in the class to give them a good value. Prepare to go home very tired!

    Carl Chadwell is also great for Advise and is sometimes available for private lessons, the guy observes everything.
     
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