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Best way to set up POI

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 686beretta, Dec 24, 2011.

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  1. 686beretta

    686beretta TS Member

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    My dad and I have recently bought a new trap gun each, he bought a Beretta 391 w/adj. comb I got a Browning XT w/ adjustable comb and gracoil reducer.
    I read a few years ago the procedure for setting the POI but I can't remember it. I recall it has something to do with setting the trap for straightaways but can't recall much after that.

    The XT will be used for doubles only.
    My dads Beretta is only used for handicap 27 yards
     
  2. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    As I remember, Neil Winston posted a very well thought out procedure for determining POI. Rather that me trying to recap his info from memory, I recommend you try the search on this forum I am sure you'll find it.
     
  3. butcher

    butcher Member

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    Shoot the gun and watch how the targets break. If you are constantly knocking pieces off the bottom then raise the rib if you are knocking the tops off lower the comb.When you are smoking the targets leave it alone. Go shoot.
     
  4. 686beretta

    686beretta TS Member

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    so setting up an O/U for doubles is it a lot different than for 16's and handicap
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Charger, though your theory of reading target breaks to determine where the bulk of the shot was flying in relation to the target is very popular and "makes sense," high-speed movies posted by Ron Baker and me last summer show that it simply doesn't work; it isn't true. And I don't mean "sometimes fails" or "you need the average over a box of shells." It doesn't work at all, not for one target, not for a thousand targets.

    It is all at the linked website above. Mouse over to "Tech Corner" and scroll down and down more to Neil Winston, then to Target Breaks, Chapter 4. There you will find what really happens when the shot is below the target and you can see the shot, the target, the break in slow-enough motion to understand the relationship between most of the shot and the break. Chapter 5 does the same for shot over the target, and finally Chapter 7 explains the reasons for the effects you have seen in the previous six videos.

    I know its hard to believe; the illusion of "reading target breaks" is very persuasive, but I think if you watch the videos, you will see what we mean.

    Neil
     
  6. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    I can attest to Neil's process. Some would disagree,but I have found that KNOWING the details about where I shoot the gun has been valuable. I recently visited an indoor range and shot my test patterns at 40 feet (close enough to 13 yards?). I have experienced more hits and many more "smoked" targets. I have also been able to fix my mount (pad) so my horizontal error is reduced dramatically.

    There is something subconsciously valuable about measuring. I also equate it to improved confidence. My "pointing" is far better than aiming ever was.

    I have Neil's article bookmarked on my iPad and review it regularly.

    Note: I'm shooting a Remington 1100 with fixed choke barrels.

    Larry Frieders
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Beretta 686, Setting up an O/U for doubles is not easy. The first target is a fast rising target and the second target is usually flat or dropping for most shooters.

    Most of the lost targets in doubles are on the second target. I would concentrate on getting the right POI for the second barrel. HMB
     
  8. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    B686, to save time and frustration, you and your Dad have some work to do. The first thing you have to do is find out where/how your new guns shoot. Not how you shoot them, how they shoot.

    Set up on a bench rest about 15 to 20 yards from the target. Put a choke tube in the bottom barrel, sight down the rib and fire at a mark on your target. You'll have to do this at least 5 times for every choke tube. You will likely find that not all the tubes shoot to the same spot. Separate out the ones that do and hide the rest. Now take one of the "good" tubes and put it in the top barrel and repeat the test. You now know you have at least some choke tubes with the same POI and you know where the top barrel shoots in relation to the bottom barrel. Hopefully they are very close. Your Dad will do the same with his barrel.

    Now it is time to see where you shoot the gun. Drawn vertical lines on a target board and position yourself about 15 yards away. Mount the gun as you would while standing on the line. Do NOT try to line up the beads. Just mount the gun, pay attention only to the front bead, trace one of the vertical lines with it, and fire at will. Do this several times. The object is to find out where you point the gun with a "natural" mount. Adjust the comb left or right until you are centered on the lines. This saves a great deal of time and frustration during the next steps.

    This part is optional, but will save time. If you still have your old gun, shoot it with the same set up as before, but with horizontal lines this time. If your old gun prints 2" high, set your new gun up the same way by raising or lowering the comb until it shoots 2" high. If you didn't have a previous trap gun, set it about 1" high if you are a skeet shooter or bird hunter or sporting shooter, or 2" high if not.

    Then do as advised above. It will now take a lot less time to establish your best POI on straight aways. Take it a step further and shoot the locked trap from Posts 1 and 5 to see if you need further adjustments. Then move back to your handicap distance and do it again. This will tell you if you need a different setting for caps.

    For doubles, do as HMB suggests. BTW, you do not have to do this all in one day.
     
  9. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    Any recommendations for setting over/under barrels for Doubles with a gun like the Krieghoff K-80 where barrel hangers can set the lower (first) barrel to shoot to a different POI than the upper (second) barrel ?

    .
     
  10. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Hammer1, it's up to you. I like both barrels to shoot to the same POI. I had a Beretta that shot the bottom barrel higher than the top to "help" shooters at doubles. I never did get used to it and sold the barrels.

    You'll find many that recommend just such a set up. Try it and find out. Using the comb, set the top barrel POI for the second shot. Then try different hangers to see where you prefer the bottom POI for the first shot.
     
  11. 686beretta

    686beretta TS Member

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    Thanks if anybody has any links that would help I would appreciate it.
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The first thing to do is find out where the guns shoot. Above is the link on how to do that.

    Neil
     
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