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???Best SLR camera for trapshooting pics

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by omahasportingsupply, May 6, 2007.

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  1. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

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    I just came back from the Nebraska State
    High School shoot and want to start getting ready for this summer. I would
    like to thank the many posters who have put great pictures of trapshooters on
    this web site which demonstrates many training concepts. It is
    obvious to me that a picture saves a lot of words and lets the shooter visualize
    the correct way to do things as opposed to just words. I traditionally use
    a video camera, but see the need for still photos for both training and our web
    site. I need some help as we are looking to purchase a camera and would
    like to be able to take actions shots like many of you have posted.


    Which is more important for action shooting: frames per second or
    megapixels? Many of the cameras are 6+ megapixels and the frames are
    2.5 or 3 frames per second. Is a 300mm lens able to do the job?
    Cannon D40 has been reviewed as well as the Canon Rebel XTi. Service or
    reliabiltiy issues with either brand? Is there a better brand?
    Can we do this for under $1500? The XTi has a shutter speed from 30
    seconds to 1/4000 and maximum is 3.0 frames per second. I would like to be
    able to shoot over the left or right shoulder and be able to show them the body,
    gun, head, shot. and rock location. Is this possible with these
    types of cameras? At the state shoot most photographers were using huge
    lenses with a mono pod. I didn't get to ask any questions since when ever
    I saw them, I was in the chair. Here is a link to the
    Junior High
    page in the sports section.



     
  2. hitpair

    hitpair TS Member

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    For training purposes you are far better served by a good quality video camera with good slow motion playback.
     
  3. goose2

    goose2 Well-Known Member

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    I tend to differ with you on the video camera for training. I have tried the video camera thing on my boys while batting at baseball. I have found that with a SLR camera you can stop every move that is made. I take thousands of pictures of my kids baseball swings and put them on the computer, then dissect them with them. Thats how I correct them with there baseball swings. To me its SLR all the way for training.
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Unless of course, it's a digital video camera with 25 or so frames per second you can individually look at...
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I suppose you mean NIkon D40.

    One thing to check is shutter-lag, the pause between your button push and the actual shot. The Rebel is 1/10 second, the D40 is "split second" which is no answer at all, though an email might find it out. I think the nod goes to the shorter one.

    Neil
     
  6. eric

    eric TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Just completed a Kay Ohye clinic. He used a digital video camers (DVD type) with slow motion and seemed to work fine. There may be other cameras out there that do the same thing though.

    Eric
     
  7. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

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    According to the
    Nikon
    page
    , the shutter lag should be from 30sec to 1/4000 of a second on the
    technical specs tab. Currently my day gig involves a lot of video work.
    NTSC (TV standard) is at 30 frames per second. This works good in many
    instances, but the video camera is somewhat limited by the lens. In
    stills, the lens will be stronger but I am not retiring the video camera, I am
    just looking to add a better lens for better stills. Sorry if I wasn't
    clear. I like my video camera for analyzing gun mount and motion items
    like lifting the head. Foot position can be shot with a still.

     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    OSS, that'[s not what shutter lag is.

    With many digital cameras you push the button and it seems to take forever for the shot to take place. That's shutter lag, a delay between "taking the picture" and the "picture being taken." If it is too long, sports photography is all guesswork.

    Neil
     
  9. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

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    Neil<br>
    I might have quoted the wrong stat from the wrong company, but that is what I took it as also. I started (a FEW years ago) trying to shoot basketball games with a Sony Mavica digital camera LOL. It wrote the pictures to a floppy disk. The lag factor was so bad, that if you shot the picture as the ball was near the hoop, the picture would have it coming out of the bottom of the net. ROFL. To get a decent picture back then, we would shoot the basket when the ball was approaching the rim and hope it wasn't through the net in the picture. My current digital camera has media cards for storage, but it still has a shutter lag that freezes the camera just when you want to squeeze that next shot. You point is well taken that the LOWER the shutter lag is, the better. We just checked our local community college flyer for non-credit classes and found a local sports photographer is teaching a "Action Sports Photography" class for $36. It might be worth the fun. Thanks
     
  10. BMC

    BMC Member

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    OSS, taking photos are part of my job description. I'm still not fully convinced that you will be able to achieve your goal 'better' with still images over those taken with a quality digital video recorder. One of the reasons I state this is because I've taken trap shooting photos and I can tell you that you will get all kinds of good, bad, and in between photos that may or may not give you the respresentation that you want. Taking a series of photos of someone shooting for the intent of dissecting the event will leave you with gaps. There are only a handful of DSLRs that have the capability to capture enough images in the time the shooter calls pull and ends with a broken target where they begin to take the stock away from their cheek. I think I understand your intent as I have my son sit down and look at the shooting images on our trap club web site while I point out different details such as stock placement, lifting the head, etc. Go to www.tricountytrap.com and click on the photos tab to see them.
     
  11. bayrat

    bayrat TS Member

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    I received a Nikon D80 with the 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX VR II Autofocus Lens for Christmas. According to their literature the "shutter lag" is .08 sec., the "time between shots" is .4 sec. with a "burst speed" of 3 frames per second. Having a 14 month old grandson that I love to take pictures of, this camera has proven that it can keep up with him very well. I had been using an Olympus 5050, which is no longer made, and I frequently missed a shot because of the shutter lag. Not so with the Nikon!

    I meant to take the camera with me to the range when we had our last Wednesday evening shoot, but I forgot. Under the lighting, I should get some really great pictures. Will be shooting this Wednesday and I will post a picture, if I remember to take my camera that is!

    I do agree, however, that digital video may be a better medium to use when instructing shooters where you are trying to record mistakes in head position, stance, where to hold for a particular post, etc. Though you can do it with digital stills, video may be a better choice. That said, some digital still cameras are capable of recording video and that may be helpful to you. Best of both worlds thing. The Nikon D80 is not capable of that. But, in the burst mode you can record multiple images.

    Let us know what works.

    Bayrat
     
  12. omahasportingsupply

    omahasportingsupply TS Member

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    Bayrat - interesting reading

    BMC NICE web site. I see that trapshooters in your club are well fed also. I would fit in well at your club. I also want to buy several of the guns the members were shooting. LOL OK, I am listening. What camera did you use and etc., etc., etc. I get good people pictures now, but I want more of the pictures like you have showing the shooter, shot, and breaking rock all in the same photo. Suggestions? Thanks to all.
     
  13. BMC

    BMC Member

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    OSS, glad you enjoyed the pictures. I didn't take those. One of our members Mark Effle takes them. I don't remember exactly what DSLR he is using thought I think it was a Canon. I've taken some myself using my work gear. You will want a longer lens. A 70 or 80-200 is ideal for the 1.5 crop factor of most consumer level DSLRs. This gives you some versatility. You will want to use an F-stop of F8 or higher in order to have the shooter and the target in focus in the shot. It depends on your background too. Hopefully you have a sky or non-cluttered background because the inceased depth of field will also increase the detail of the background which won't be the greatest for isolating your two key elements of the photo. If you wanted to take shots of your students then I would set the machine to throw straight aways and put the shooter on station 2,3 or 4. With the lens I described or one very similar you will be on about the 27 yard line with them on the 16. The longer focal length lens "flattens" or "compresses" the distance between your foreground and background, thus showing the shooter and the target clearly. Having only straight-aways allows you to adjust your focal length in order to get the proper framing for both elements in the shot. T

    Then comes timing. If you want to take actual target breaking images, you have to know the timing. Shutter lag was discussed above and it does matter for quick shooting (camera). If it is a sunny day, which is best, and the morning with the light to the side even better, you should have a shutter speed of around 500 or higher at 100-200iso. If you want it to be even quicker, just up the ISO a notch to 400 and you should be near 1000 speed for F8 and higher aperatures. Your mileage will vary depending on your lens and camera software. When taking the pictures, you kinda have to press right when you expect the shooter will pull the trigger, not when he or she "has" pulled the trigger. You'll get widely broken chips that hard to make out if you press the shutter button when you hear "bang". You have to shoot a lot, but once you get the timing down and if the light is good, you will be surprised how easy it is really. A monopod is good to use too if you are using a longer lens. Just set up the framing, focus on the shooter and snap when they should pull the trigger. I got a good one the other day of the shooter, wad about five feet out and the faint shot cloud headed towards the target. That was one of about 100 so you have to shoot a lot to get some good ones. Lucky our guy Mark has figured out how to get some really nice stuff our site.
    I should also mention one of the importances of getting the shot before or right exactly as the trigger is pulled by the shooter is that in the images of the instance afterwards it will appear as though the shooter lifted his head or is not in the stock right. Sometimes that is simply the gun recoiling or coming back off the shoulder. I think that is where the video would be better in order to see clearly what is really going on. I hope this answers some of your questions.
    Just remember, good light, fast shutter speed, F8 or higher, know the capabilities of the camera and use your shooting instinct to pull the trigger when you think it should be shot. Then fill a card with as many images as you can..lol. Good luck.
    Brian.
     
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