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Best Muzzel loader and load

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Setterman, Dec 6, 2007.

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  1. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Want to get a new smokepole for Christmas. I currently have a Knight that shoots great, but their awful pricey, and the bolt action series are a pain to clean. It's a 150gr Magnum hunter.

    Could you experts give me some suggestions on a "Best Buy" that is as accurate as my Knight. Would appreciate some load/bullet data too. Type of powder, sabot, bullet type and weight, and what kind of groups you see at 100 yards.
    Thanks
     
  2. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    setterman,

    Can't help you on what's "best" but CVA has some good values, and Thompson/Center is a well-known name.

    As far as your second question, that, to me, boils down to "whatever works best in your gun."

    And that's kind of the beauty of muzzleloading. You have to go to the range and do trial-and-error with different combinations of bullets and powder charges until you find the one that groups best in your gun.

    It also depends on what the twist rate is for your gun. Slow twists (1 in 64)are good for round balls. Medium twists do round balls and conicals, but neither exceptionally well. Fast twists (1 in 24) are best for conicals and sabots.

    I like the Powerbelt bullets. Full diameter with a plastic gas-check.

    I do strongly recommend the use of Hodgdon 777 black powder substitute. It really does what it's advertized to do. Clean up with plain hot water.

    I've got an older CVA sidelock replica with a 1 in 48 twist. With 80 grains of 777 and a 348 grain hollowpoint Powerbelt copper-coated bullet, and plain old iron sights, it'll do a 3" group at 50 yards. When I'm out during muzzleloading season, I limit my shots to 75 yards or so.

    The higher tech guns like your Knight and the T/C guns should do much better than that.

    Tim
     
  3. WarEagle2017

    WarEagle2017 Active Member

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    I had 3 Knights Black Knight and two T-Bolts, and every DAMM conversion Kit that Knight Sold ( and they sell a lot ) I now shoot and Encore 50 Stainless and I wouldn't even think of looking back, so much cleaner and Quality is Great. The only other Muzzle loader that I would consider is the Savage with the set trigger and the Model that burns Smokless Powder, ( I hear that it is great )
     
  4. WarEagle2017

    WarEagle2017 Active Member

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    as for the load I use 3 ( 150 gr. ) Pryodex Pellets and 250 Gr. Sabot TC Brand
     
  5. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Timb99, I actually have 2 Knights, one is a 100gr gun with a scope that shoots 1" groups at 100 yards. But it shoots best w/ FFF blackpowder which is a pain. The pyrodex pellets are Ok but the groups suffer. Thats why I'm asking.
    I want to make the best proven purchase this time, and hopefully find a gun that shoots Triple7 or one of the cleaner powders good. I also like that removeable breech plug thing for fast clean up without tearing the whole gun apart. I've heard of people having group problems with the Omega and Traditions guns, but did they experiment on loads??? Who knows.
     
  6. tj303

    tj303 Member

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    I owned an Encore and hated the trigger, sold the gun. A friend has a smokeless Savage and three other black powder muzzleloaders (one is a Remington), his favorite is the smokeless Savage. I get to borrow his Remington which is as accurate as I can hold it.
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I have a 50-caliber stainless steel T/C Omega and load Hornady 250-grain bullets in their sabots with 150 grains (three pellets) of Pyrodex and Federal 209A primers. With a Leupold L-250 3x-9x scope, it puts three rounds in 1.5" at 100 yards without cleaning between shots.

    You might want to Google "muzzleloading rifles" - you'll find a lot fo articles, one of which compares all the popular ones out there. It's very informative.

    Ed
     
  8. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    I'll second AveragED! I too have a stainless laminate T/C Omega. It shoots nearly identicle to what AE does. Funny enough, I use the same load. My dad has the exact same gun and he has taken deer down cleanly at 200yds using the same load. As far as I'm concerned, it's the best shooting ML on the market! Heck, even Nikon makes a scope just for this gun and it goes by the same name.

    ec90t
     
  9. M-16

    M-16 TS Member

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    SS verses Blued steel. SS is more likely to pit from fouling than blued and 99% of all SS guns have blued parts some where in them. I shoot flintlock so no comment on a gun or load. Just alot of people think a SS gun doesn't need cleaned or can wait. Good luck and have a smoken good time.
     
  10. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    You start of by saying you are looking for a best buy. That said, you usually sarifice something on a best buy. The weapon might have a great trigger and sights but the finish may be second rate and the stock flimsy. A good all arounf Magnum gun is the CVA Optima Pro series. Stainless, 28" magnum barrel, fiber sights (who uses sights anymore), thumbhole stock and 209 ignition. Comes with a sling. Gander mountain just had them here in MI for $229. Regularly $299. The cheapest I could find this gun at any of my distributors was $244. Then I pay to have it shipped. I own a Rem 700 ML and there is a reason they don't make them anymore. If you like a face full of hot powder gas, that is the gun for you. It is a tackfriver but the powder gas travels back through the bolt and right into the shooters face. I am not the only oerson in my area with one of these nor am I the only oerson who has experienced this phenemenon. There is a weather shield that they made for that gun as well. Don't ever use it with a 209 primer. It magnifies the problem. Great trigger, accurate, pain in the butt to clean and hard on the face and eyes.

    Jeff
     
  11. Freebird

    Freebird TS Member

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    I love my savage smokeless. I will never go back to black powder. Cleaning is a breeze. Anything inside of 250 yds is right in my wheelhouse.
     
  12. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    PERSONALLY (just one man's opinion) the muzzleloader seasons were intended to open hunting up to "primitiive means" kind of like bow hunting.

    In-lines, anything that uses smokeless powder, scopes, fiber optic sights, all that stuff, in my mind, should be banned from muzzleloader season.

    Side locks, using black powder or black powder substitute, and iron sights should be as far as we can go.

    Sorry, just my opinion.
     
  13. wm rike

    wm rike Member

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    I'll second timb99
     
  14. Chuckbuster

    Chuckbuster TS Member

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    Omega T/C is the gun. I"ve had seven different ones and this one shoots and loads and cleans the best of the lot. 100 gr. triple seven with a 295 gr Power belt green plastic tip. Puts em in the center every time. Power belts take the aggervation out of loading. My Omega is stainless with a grey lamanited stock. Excellent choice. GOOD LUCK

    TOM K.
     
  15. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    I just sold my Thompson Thunderhawk, which has served me well for many years. As of this year I started working with a new Winchester Apex. I tend to be a little more traditional in my load, I also like to be up close with my deer, so I have almost no shots past 80 yards. I drop 85g Pryodex, with a round ball. The APEX really seemed to like this combo, the shots were right on top of each other, also I tested many triggers this one had the best factory trigger of the ones I tried. I will be out in the morning, it is the start of our Muzzleloading season.

    GS
     
  16. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    I use a T/C Hawkins kit gun, 1 in 66 twist, patched round ball, open sights, 90gr. of Goex black powder. Every deer I've shot at was killed in one shot. Some of the in-line are down right pretty and very accurate as well but to me muzzle loading hunting is primitive as tim99 explains in his previous post.

    Bill
     
  17. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    go savage ml10 if you want to shoot black powder for the smoke Tompson Encor change the ejector and clean with a water hose rick
     
  18. bkms

    bkms Member

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    Knight and CVA make good guns. But In Mississippi the muzzleloader season rules changed a couple years ago. Now the fun (and agony) was taken out by this new rule. Now, cleaning one is a matter of opening the breech and sliding a cleaning rod in. Heres our new rules "In addition to muzzle-loading firearms, single shot, breech loading, metallice cartridge rifles, .38 caliber or larger, of a kind and type manufactured prior to 1900, and replicas, reproductions or a re-introduction of those type rifles are legal provided it has an exposed hammer". The handi rifle is a hot seller. These guns mounted with scopes shoot groups that can compare with my H&K 308. Bob....
     
  19. DJM

    DJM Member

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    When the "All Season" deer license (Minn.)came about I bought a $99 Traditions. Black on black and very front heavy, but it has never failed to fire. I can hit a softball at 40 yds every shot off the bench. I load 100 g of American Pioneeer loose powder behind a Hornady .44 cal XTP with a .50 cal sabot sleeve. I have shot 2 deer in the ribs from 80-100 yds and both slugs passed through. I'm still shooting off my initial $160 investment. One time in my life I bought cheap and was not disapointed.
     
  20. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    I bought a "wind river magnum" on sale at Cabelas a couple of years ago and it was advertised as a 150 grain magnum. I couldn't get a respectable group with the three pellet load, and not what I wanted with a 2 pellet load. I went to 110 grains of 777 loose ffg and it shoots like a house a fire at 100yds, I use 240 grain 44 mag hp in a green sabot. 3 for 3 on deer since and all hit where I wanted. It is a little cumbersome to prime and deprime, but cleans up easy as pie.
     
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