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BEST GUN POWDER EVER MADE FOR TRAPSHOOTING

34K views 44 replies 29 participants last post by  SeldomShoots 
#1 ·
Hello:
When I first started shooting in 1970 I purchased an old Mec single stage reloader from a older man at the Waukesha Gun club. He told me in the 60's he reloaded Red dot powder. He said it's all set up for red dot. He said Red dot is the best gun powder for trap shooting. After loading up some All American hulls, and finding out the hard way that I needed to lower the powder charge, I continued to use Red dot for years. It was a dirty powder, but reliable.

Years later a Wisconsin hall of fame shooter convinced me to go to Green dot. Around 5 years later I switched to 700x. For a short time I switched to winchesters ball powder, think it was called 452AA powder, not sure it's been so long ago. It was a very fine granulated powder, but got all over my mec graber reloader.

Lastly, a friend said it may cost you more money than all the rest, but treat yourself to reloading PB powder. To me this is the best powder I have ever used. Targets are smoked with authority, recoil is low. Is there a powder out there now that some might say is better than PB? I would find it hard to believe. If you know of any better, please tell me.

I also have a question that I would like answered. Years ago I also used new Federal Papers for Handicap events. It looked like Red Dot powder inside of the hull. A guy told me it looks like red dot, but trust me, it's not the same red dot that we can buy. If this is true, why not?
Steve Balistreri
 
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#2 ·
Powder companies make powder to a specification. What meets that specification's tolerances is called "cannister grade" and is sold to us handloaders in cannisters up to eight pounds in size. What doesn't fall into the tolerance is sold to the ammunition manufacturers, so while that powder might look just like Red Dot, for example, and may in fact BE Red Dot, it isn't exactly the same Red Dot you and I can buy.

I share your opinion of PB but the cost is beginning to get me thinking about Green Dot the next time I buy two eight-pound jugs. They are very similar in performance.

Ed
 
#3 ·
I started reloading shotgun in 1963. Used Alcan papers,wads,primers. Red Dot. Loaded on the little Lee loader that came in the small tiny box. To me,PB powder for straight wall with 1 1/8th & 1 oz & Clays for AA/STS in 1 & 7/8 oz.
I have tried head to head with a lot of powders & have come up with nothing better or even equal. Both recoil & patterns. Yes,there are certain very special loads that work much better with other powders but for everyday overall shooting,these two. WHY-WHY-WHY do trapshooters that own/shoot $5-10,000 guns yell about a few pennies more/box for a better powder. Go figure out how much it cost you to shoot a 300 target event,no purses,but add the travel,then come & tell me that you can't afford the extra $3.00 for PB powder. If you can't afford that $3.00,you have no business blowing off into the air that $40-50-60 in shells ALONE. AverageEd-- I have made up loads using the same componants to the same chrono velocity & find Green Dot does give more recoil than PB. I do LOVE GD for certain games loads. For what clay target shooting costs,the dollar differences in powders is the very least critical thing. Tom.
 
#4 ·
We used to have access in Western Canada to a shotshell powder made in Scotland by Noble. They were nitrocellulose "gun cotton". It was made to match Red Dot specs and was extremely consistent and was extremely clean burning. And it was significantly cheaper than Red Dot.
 
#6 ·
Brownst100:
I used the brass goumet on my grabber and I still leaked 452AA powder on the reloading machine and the table. At that time I was shooting a rem 1100 and it seemed to cake up the inside of my gun. What I did like about that powder was it seemed to drop consistant measures of powder compared to everything else.
Steve
 
#8 ·
IMR SR7625, formerly made by DuPont. Lowest chamber pressure for equivelent velocity of most any powder commercially avaible. When RXP hulls were loaded with 1 1/8 oz for 1150fps, chamber pressure is in the 5200 to 5400 psi range. Same hull and componnents loaded with 700X are 10,000+ psi. When I reloaded using 1 1/8 oz #8 1/2 Lawrence x-hard shot it felt like cheating. Even though this powder is expensive, if I ever start to reload again, it is the only powder I will use. Some killer HC and field loads can be loaded and still pressures will be comparatively low. Marc
 
#9 ·
After a generation or more of trying most every powder out there, I have settled on Solo 1000 for everything but my Caps load, and Solo 1250 for that. Since 1250 has apparently been dropped, I will likely go to Unique to replace it.

I now only load and shoot the 12, have given up four gauge Skeet. Less drama, more fun. We do this for fun, DON'T WE?
 
#14 ·
PB is more expensive than cocaine and it takes a snuff-can full of it to make a load; at dusk, you're shooting a 10' roman candle and if you shoot an auto, you get flaming hulls ...

that said, it meters like water, ignores hot or cold and the SD and ES are non-existent.

PB is God's Own Powder (when he can arrange financing, that is) and it smells wunnerful in paper hulls, too.

JMHO, of course.


Bob
 
#15 ·
PB for drop accuracy and velocity consistency-so say my chronograph crazy ballistic nuts. I've only got 50 lbs. left from that special deal a few years ago. I've already been warned by wife that she doesn't care what it costs, her shells better be loaded with PB.

800-X is still being made and if you can stand 1/2gr. drop variations will break targets and make plenty of noise at the same time. I still have a 12 lb. can of that stuff somewhere!!
 
#16 ·
Best Gun Powder? Best for what? Best for price, clean burning, availability or metering well? Even the worst powder will smash targets well. This can be clearly seen by shooting some discount shells. Recoil? It has been shown many times that the difference in burning rates of different powders will not have an affect on felt recoil. It is true that the burning curves of powders will vary (3-5/10,000 of a second). There will be more affect on recoil by adding or removing a single shot from the shell than from the different burning rates.

Or, most important, what powder is best for the local economy of Christiansburg VA (my home)? The answer to that question is any Alliant powder.

Pat Ireland
 
#19 ·
AHAB:
I second that thought!

Steve

Pat:
Best gun powder in my opinion for handicap shooting, bar none.
If I had money I would only use Federal Papers. To me, best shell ever made. If I ever go to heaven hope to use new Fed papers, and sniff them after each shot. I also want Hoppe's no.9 to clean my guns. In fact, I like the smell so much that I just might use Hoppes for colonge but i am already married. Don't want to take the chance. My friend just said look in the mirror I have nothing to worry about.
Steve
 
#20 ·
If someone loaded 10 different shells with 10 diff. powders by the book,and you shot them,how many do you think you could identify? What if I told you I got my best hits and scores shooting Winchester Super-Target shells over AAs or STS at $20.00 less per flat. Powders & shells make little difference in scores. If someone else loaded your gun,could you tell the difference? Highly doubtful. I thnk Leo shot Challengers and broke 100's from the 27. If the perks are right,he can use anything.
 
#22 ·
1oldtimer:
I do agree that if a person is on a target regardless using any powder for trap that he will break the target. Here is what I like about PB. It smokes targets better than any other powder I have ever used. When I pattern my gun, I have more shot in a 30 inch circle. The recoil is more of a push than a shove.
Now getting back to Red Dot. We as trap shooters owe the makers of Red Dot a big thank you. Red Dot is part of our History.
I am going to tell you a story about red dot powder. Years ago I had an 870 tb with most of the bluing off. A friend of mine asked if I had a 870tb for sale. I said yes I do and on a saturday morning, I painted the metal flat black, and it looked just like someone had the gun parkerized. My friend calls and said meet me out at the club, I want to shoot it first. My friend comes dressed in a white T shirt, white slacks, whits socks, and white tennis shoes. He looked like mr. Clean. He starts on position #2, it is sunny and 95degrees outside. I am watching him shoot along with other friends that knew that I painted the metal. as he is turning right at station #5 to go to one, he looks at his hands and shirt and he is mostly all black. I run out and say, what powder are you using? he said red dot, I said this is some dirty powder. We all start laughing and I told him I painted the 870 and it was not parkerized. He ask me how much I wanted for the gun? I said lets call it even after you just ruined your clothes.
Steve
 
#23 ·
1oldtimer - The last big explosion at the plant was around 1975. I am not counting the storage bunker explosion around 10 years ago. The line that blew in 1975 was producing powder for the Army and it did not involve the lines devoted to cannister powder. The cleaner Red Dot (graphite added under water) was first made around 2000.

Pat Ireland
 
#25 ·
Since 1957, I have loaded most of the powders on the market. I fail to find a distinct advantage of one over the other. This does not qualify me as an expert,however. It is just like guns,if you think one is better, go with that one, you will have better results.

Pat, You amaze me with your never ending abundance of knowledge. Seriously.
 
#26 ·
I have loaded 700X, 800X, Greendot, Herco, and many other powders. I have not loaded PB.

I and another friend of mine, a retired Air Force General, spent hours and hours behind his and my Ohler 33 Chrono testing. As you can see I had a lot of time on my hands then.

What we found is all of the powders listed worked well most of the time, however, when it got cold, that's when things changed. The low pressure powders did not perform well. None of them did. 700X and Red Dot did performed, however, the fps were down. That was always consistant.

Guys that took powders like Red Dot and eased up on the charges also seemed to have problems on a cold day. We found PSI chamber pressures need to be above 9800 for the load to be consistant. It might be a little slower on a cold day but it was consistant for that day.

We hand loaded all of are loads and used are PW press for seating the wads and crimping. We took AA cases and labeled them. Back then a lot of shooters were throwing their AA cases away after 3 reloads saying they were no good. We never found that to be true. The AA cases we started with were oncefired cases. Thy were labeled A1,A2,A3.....etc. The cases marked A were loaded with say Red Dot 19.0 gr. with 1-1/8 oz #7.5 shot (+/- 1 BB. Upon the first series of firings the FPS might be 1185 fps. The next time they were reloaded, with the same hand weighed load it might be more or less. The same held true for the remainder of the whole test. I think I reloaded the same cases 6 times and sometimes the cases/load was faster on the #6 test then on the first test. The FPS was not a great deal. Maybe 15 FPS. We tried to test at the same temperature +/- 5 degrees.

We also tested differences in barrel lengths, auto vs. break open, vs pumps (with the same barrel lengths.

I ended up loading for my own shooting 19.5 gr red dot with 1-1/8 oz 7.5 shot. That was then. They changed Red Dot some years back and I load 19.0 gr Red Dot.

Andy
 
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