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Best black powder gun recommendation

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by CalvinMD, Sep 3, 2008.

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  1. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    I have a TC Black Diamond Stainless ...very accurate and easy on the pocketbook...Mine is a Super 45...I use the new Blackhorn 209 powder(115gr)..Fed209A primer and a Speer 220gr FP (.358 dia.)in an MMP high pressure sabot...I'm getting over 2300fps and 1.5" groups at 100yds...I can take shots to almost 300yds
     
  2. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    First decide if you want to go modern or traditional. The traditional muzzle loader is a side lock design that has a slow rifling twist suitable for patched round balls. These guns can be very accurate but the round ball has poor ballistics and consequently hunting ranges are limited to about 100 yards. Also if you are being traditional, optics are out, open or peep sights are the rule. A good example of this kind of rifle is Lymans Great Plains rifle. I have a .54 cal Great Plains gun that I have used on two deer an one elk and I really enjoy hunting with this gun. Hunting with a gun like this is fairly challenging and there is a substancial learning curve for making the gun shoot accurately and dependably.

    Then there is the modern muzzle loader that uses an inline ignition system generally with 209 primers and advanced projectiles that have fairly good ballistics. These guns are reliable and easy to use and accuracy is very good. There really isn't much of a handicap in using one of these guns over a modern cartridge rifle other than you only get one shot. Ruger, Remington, Savage, T/C and Knight all make great shooting inline muzzle loading guns.
     
  3. biggreen

    biggreen TS Member

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    I would go traditional and get a flintlock with a Chambers lock and a Getz or Rice barrel. If I could not find it this year I would wait until modern firearms season and try to find one for next year.
     
  4. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    There is lots to choose from, Budget makes a difference. Can't go to far wrong with T/C / American made. Be more specific to your needs and I will suggest. Buy 50 calibre only !!!!


    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  5. XP100

    XP100 Well-Known Member

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    Joe, why 50 cal. only? I would buy a Savage unless State law prohibited smokeless powder. T/C, Knight are good. Traditions and CVA are decent for the money but don't compare to T/C.
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Buy Quality. I have a T/C inline and have shot the Savage several times. My next acquisition will probably be the Savage. It will work with Black Powder, BP Substitutes, Pellets, and a limited choice of Smokeless. It was quite accurate and well made. The .50 cal is the most popular for game in this part of the woods. If using a .50, stay away from the .44 cal projectiles in sabots. The .45 caliber projectiles will usually give better accuracy when used with a sabot in the .50 cal barrels. I have an old T/C Hawkin I made from a kit many years ago and an old .58 cal plains rifle from Lyman. The Hawkin has taken MANY deer in it's time, but didn't work well with Black Powder Substitutes, except for Pyrodex. Even Pyrodex was a problem in colder weather. It was due to the "non 209" ignition. My personal experience dictates a 209 primer ignition for the substitutes like Triple Seven. I shot an inline Remington 700 with the percussion cap ignition. Even Pyrodex pellets were giving some delayed ignition. I'll be converting that one over to the 209 system for the owner before the next deer season.
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I bought a T/C Omega last year and installed a Leupold L-200 (not a cataloged model) in 3-9x with a BDC reticle calibrated for a 50-caliber muzzleloader shooting 250-grain saboted bullets with the 150-grain equivalent of black powder or a substitute. The reticle has a dot above the Plex crosshair for 50 yards, the crosshair is for 100 yards and there are three dots below it for 150, 200 and 250 yards. I only checked the 50 and 100-yard aiming points and they were almost right on. I use Federal 209A primers because I have thousands on hand for my trap loads.

    I cannot say enough about the rifle. The only clumsy thing about it is removing the breech block for cleaning but a 1/4-inch drive ratchet, an extension and a 7/16" socket make that very easy. Be aware that there are two almost lookalike models of the Omega - the Omega and the Omega Z5. The Omega comes in blued carbon steel or stainless while the Z5 is carbon steel with T/C's Weathershield coating. It looks like stainless but isn't although it's better than plain carbon steel for external corrosion resistance.

    I've found these rifles are as sensitive to what they are fed as a smokeless powder rifle. Mine groups well with 250-grain Hornady SST bullets and sabots over three pellets of Triple Se7en - 1-1/2 inches for three shots at 100 yards. Using Pyrodex opened the groups to just under three inches and the T/C Shock Wave bullets and sabots didn't shoot as well with either propellant. The three-shot velocity average with Triple Se7en was 2,190fps while Pyrodex was a little faster, but I went for the better accuracy of Triple Se7en. Triple Se7en is a little cleaner than Pyrodex, too, and its smoke raises less hell with my sinuses.

    I didn't try any other powders or bullets. For that large a slug going that fast at the distances it will be shot in Pennsylvania, I'm happy with that accuracy.

    Another plus for the Hornadys is their sabots. They have a stem protruding from the bottom onto which three powder pellets fit snugly and the stem can be trimmed slightly if you are not using two-pellet charges (100-grain equivalent). As far as simplicity and ease of reloading in the woods or in a tree stand, powder pellets preloaded onto Hornady sabots is a lot better than sabots without the stem or using loose powder.

    Ed
     
  8. deercreek

    deercreek Well-Known Member

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    If interested, I have a Stainless steel Thompson Encore 209 x 50 with camo synthetic stock for sale. 475.00 plus shipping to your FFL. Bryan
     
  9. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    Bullet Availability, Everyone does not have excess to a variety of ammo.Yes there is other s but 50 is most popular. Some of us have been deer hunting with muzzleloaders long before inlines, pellets and 209 primers. Modern availability has changed drastically in the last 10 yrs.
    I still use an original Knight MK 85 , 50 cal, bought in 1987.Started BP deer hunting in Ontario in 1981, Enjoy it very much. Today I think T/C Omega Z 5 is one of the best buys for the dollar.Everyone has a different budget.


    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    For me, I prefer blackpowder cartridge rifles, not muzzleloaders. Mainly the Winchester 1885 Single Shot, but also lever guns. Just mentioning this as an alternative. However, in Oregon, blackpowder cartridge rifles shoot in the modern season, not the primitive season.
     
  11. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    for cartridge rifles, the Montana made Sharps guns are hard to beat but they are pricey.
     
  12. mette56

    mette56 Well-Known Member

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    anything but a Knight! Regardless of caliber. Poor service, even if you can get them to call you back. I left a message for Tony Knight on his personal phone regarding my new Knight. That was over 2 years ago, still no returned call. Several attempts.

    Caution!!!

    milt
     
  13. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Averaged has got it going on. My Omega has the exact same tendencies. It will shoot a 3 1/2" group @200yds all day long using the exact same powder and bullet recipe that he stated. The Omega is the best inline for the money period!

    ec90t
     
  14. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    A nice 1895 vintage Marlin in .40-82 or .38-56 black powder cartridge would do nicely.
     
  15. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    gmag,

    My fathers Knight won't hold a candle to my Omega. He was so impressed with mine, that I bought him one as well. He's tried to sell the Knight, but can't even give it away.

    ec90t
     
  16. SARGE75X

    SARGE75X Member

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    Savage model 10ML with the AccuTrigger hands down the best I've ever owned or shot and no mess to clean up. Tack driver all the way to 200 yards.
     
  17. Husky44

    Husky44 Active Member

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    Plus 1 on the .54 Lyman Great Plains if you’re at all interested in traditional muzzleloaders. I started last year with this rifle, only after resisting the thought of using anything other than modern center fires for hunting. Getting older killing an animal is less important than the actual experience of the hunt. I took a doe last year on our place in Idaho, was one of the best hunts I have ever experienced. Cleaning the rifle with boiling hot water, the smell of real black powder is all part of traditional muzzleloader shooting. Plus they just look great hanging above the fireplace.
     
  18. SARGE75X

    SARGE75X Member

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    Well besides the no mess as most of us know the trigger can make all the diffrence in the world. Savage did their homework with the AccuTrigger. Just remember The Savage has a "proofed barrel" that can handle Nitro powders.So dont try to load any other front end loader with Nitro based powders.
     
  19. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear there is at least one other nostalgic 'fool' out there Husky44. Life is a journey not a destination and sometimes the most interesting detours in the journey are the old roads.
     
  20. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    I like the Omega very well.--- If money is not a issue in your purchase I would go with the Savage. Works with Black, a BP substitue or smokeless. ( A note here). Some places ban the use of smokeless durig muzzle loader seasons so be sure to check local regs!--- If you are on a limited budget take a look at CVA's Optima. It is a good gun for the price.
     
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