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Bending Barrels for Changing POI

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by rick979, Apr 4, 2009.

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  1. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    I once saw two guys bending the barrels on their handicap guns. One was a TM1 the other a Beretta. They were wacking their barrels with a 25 pound bag of shot while the gun was propped up between 2 bags of shot. Seems a little archaic in this day and age....doncha' think?
     
  2. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    Most use the shot bags and wack the barrel over them. It works if you get it right. If you dont its a new barrel. A guy at an old club I belonged to used a feed sack of cracked corn. He was good most of the time.
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It works.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Only problem is they shoot back to where they were before. You have to go beyond the desired spot a little.

    I saw one that was bent so much it had a kink in it. Shot fine, though.


    HM
     
  5. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Shot with a guy one time that had his barrel bent so much that it would shoot behind him. He had to face the score keeper to shoot the targets. Had a kind of a mirror thingy attached to the gun so he could see the bird behind him.
     
  6. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    It's a great idea! Plus, the more you bend the barrel, the less felt recoil because the friction of the shot in your crooked barrel pushes the gun forward! This recoil reduction side-effect is especially good on barrels which are ported on the outside of the turn because then the shot can get traction as it whips past the little holes!

    Seriously, this post sounds like trolling, but people actually do this (in fact, it is mandatory in parts of West Virginia). Anyway, when you look down a barrel which has been butchered by this knucklehead practice and see what is sort of an elliptical shape it's easy to comprehend what happens to the shot as it tries to travel "around the bend" at speed. The cross-sectional area of shot which can travel freely is greatly reduced and the percentage of shot which suffers ballistics-ruining deformation is greatly increased. Ideally, the shot-to-barrel contact should be minimized, except at the choke. Intentionally introducing dramatically higher pellet-to-barrel collisions (and pellet-to-pellet, by the way) is just asking for bad performance and unpredictable patterning.

    -Gary
     
  7. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    There are barrel-bending machines which can do a fine job in the hands of an expert. These machines are not very common and are quite large. Halfmile was correct in that the bent barrles have a tendency to shoot themselves back into their original shape. That's why they have to be bent a bit more.
     
  8. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit.

    No topic lends itself to bullshit more than this one.

    You can get the barrel-bending device for $150 from Brownells, it works fine, and doesn't destroy patterns.

    On this business of barrels "shooting themselves back into shape." If the barrel shoots itself back into shape, then it was never _really_ bent in the first place. Mostly this claim comes from people who bent their barrels without patterning before and after. One day, they shoot a terrible score on the first 100...get the local barrel guru to go whack their barrel a few times on the truck bumper with a shot bag...then come back and do better on the second hundred. The whacking fixed the material "between their ears" more than anything, but since they did no pattern checks, they never realize that. Six months later, after another bad day at the traps, they finally get around to patterning it, and realize, to their horror, that the pattern is right "back" where it was. So they conclude, the barrel "musta shot itself back." Well, the truth is, it never moved to begin with. If they had bent it for real, the effect would be visible by looking down the barrel...and it won't undo itself, either. But again, if you didn't pattern - how would you know?

    I have never seen a "bent" barrel, one that was bent enough that the resulting effect could be MEASURED ON PATTERN PAPER BEFORE AND AFTER, that didn't have a visible "kink" in it.

    If the barrel doesn't have a kink in it...it hasn't been bent enough to matter. And by "matter," we're talking about checking the pattern location on paper - before and after.

    Those guys whacking barrels with shot bags aren't accomplishing a thing - unless you can see a visible kink (in the barrel, NOT just the rib) when done. No kink, no change. Modern barrel steels have TREMENDOUS memory, within a certain range. You have to get past the yield stress point, to make a permanent change...up to that point, you haven't done a damn thing. It just springs back. Not six months later, but IMMEDIATELY. And if you did it without patterning before and after, you'll never know one way or the other, anyway.

    The photo below shows a particular Remington barrel I have that shot to the side. So one day a few years ago, I started patterning-bending-patterning, and taking pictures as I went. The tool employed was a B-Square barrel press - $150 from Brownells - which I later sold to Tron because I now have several straight-shooting barrels and don't need it anymore. It was an interative process: I would tighten the barrel press down a certain number of quarter-turns, then take the barrel out and pattern it to see if I'd changed anything. If 5 shots showed no change at 40 yards, I took it back to the torture rack, and tightened it a little farther next time. The first several tries, the barrel would just snap back to original shape - no change, either in appearance or on the pattern board. After many tries, I finally got it - and you could tell, because this time, the barrel was visibly "kinked" upon removal from the press. I was trying to move it about 4"~6" at 40 yards. The photo below shows the magnitude of bend that had to be applied in the press, before the change finally "stuck." THE MAGNITUDE IS SO GREAT, YOU CANNOT SEE THROUGH THE BARREL, IT'S BENT SO MUCH! The barrel of course snaps back somewhat, when you release the deflection force. Once I got that first "yield," I was where I needed to be, and didn't have to go farther. I started on a sunny afternoon...you can see it got rather dark before I achieved my goal, attesting to the amount of time it takes to do this, and do it right - while verifying and documenting the results (5 shot patterns) at each stage of the process. As you can see, this is not a "fifteen-minute shot bag on the truck bumper" type of process. That was several years ago, and after a couple ATA seasons followed by several seasonal leagues, it's still shooting dead-on where it should be. I also have an 870 barrel I did the same way, this time a vertical change, and ditto for that one.

    Look at the amount of bend in the photo. Are you doing that with your 25lb shot bags? I bet not. Every barrel is different, of course, but this here is a 1967 vintage Remington 100 fixed-full barrel and it took a heckuva lot of wrenching to get the pattern to move at all. I strongly suspect that if you can still see daylight through your barrel as you're bending it, you might not be accomplishing much yet.

    And don't forget, as Neil would certainly point out - if you don't pattern BEFORE _AND_ AFTER...you don't have the damnedest idea what you've done - if anything.


    [​IMG]
     
  9. batman1004

    batman1004 TS Member

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    buzz-gun you are right on the money well put
     
  10. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Raise the comb - easier and you don't mess with things you shouldn't... unless you're going side-to-side... then alter the comb L-to-R, etc.

    Ray Stafford bent my barrel about amonth B4 I went to the Grand and I was lucky enough to shoot a 99 in the Vandalia Hdcp. Rib was a little loose, however.
     
  11. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    I'm with Buzz on this one:

    <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v712/Tronspace/?action=view¤t=100_1314.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v712/Tronspace/?action=view¤t=100_1311.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v712/Tronspace/?action=view¤t=100_1316.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  12. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    If you ever thought, "I can't hit what I'm aiming at, so I think I'll bend my gun barrel," you might be a redneck.

    -Gary
     
  13. ztrapshooter

    ztrapshooter TS Member

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    I took my barrel to Tom Seitz he called said it needed to be bent to shoot 70
    percent he did all his magic to it that was 25 years ago ..it had four wrinkle in top of barrel ...in the last five inches ..you had to look close to see but alway there in sun light ..I shot that gun well for 20 years it never did change poi and it maade smoke balls out the targets ..so if you think Tom Seitz new any he did that to many ..
     
  14. jcw62

    jcw62 TS Member

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    Why in the heck would anyone want to buy a gun and then have the friggen barrel bent so they can shoot the damn thing, makes no sense, must be a bunch of hillbillies.
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The only problem with the pictured machine is that you have to do the whole barrel, practically, when all you really need is a bit at the end. And of course there's the expense, time, and restrictions on the imagination though the results can hardly be argued with.

    If you can loosen up just a bit, here's the "green" alternative.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>


    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    And yes, that scuff mark is exactly what you were afraid it was. . .

    Neil
     
  16. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

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    I saw the tree method of barrel bending once at the PA state shoot many years ago.
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Seems as if several posters above have not looked closely at a K-80. The dial at the end of the barrel does bend the barrel up or down. It bends the barrel enough to change the POI and it does not put a kink in the barrel.

    I prefer the K-80 method of barrel bending over the Winston Forked Tree system ,but I have used both and both work.


    Pat Ireland
     
  18. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Oh sure, Neil...go for the biggest tree on the lot. I got the same results out of a Maple sapling only 1" thick. I think ladies and juniors would be much more likely to try barrel bending, if they could try it on a type of tree they actually have available. You didn't even try a Maple tree for chrissakes, how are we supposed to believe you if you didn't try a Maple tree?

    Sheesh.
     
  19. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Barrel bending is a combination of both art and science. HMB
     
  20. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    In the "old days" no one knew about adjustable ribs and combs, and the thought was that if you got you comb much higher than the sacred figure 8 the gun would beat up your cheek. That left barrel bending as the only alternative and a lot of the "pros" were masters.

    Larry Gravestock was the preeminent barrel bender. I shot a TM1 that I got in December of 1974 and bent the barrel the same week it arrived. I moved the pattern from 60/40 to just over 100% via a cabinet vice. I shot that gun as it was from 1974 till I quit shooting it in 1985.

    There was a great picture of Ray Stafford with his bent barrel TM1 in the old American Shotgunner Mag. It looked like a really broken down sway backed mare from the side. BTW I bent my barrel before Ray did his.
     
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