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Barrel regulation evaluation

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Calkidd, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Great question Mike I am thinking this should be posted with the other questions we have asked. Its good information all should know.
     
  2. Jim R

    Jim R Ljutic Nut TS Supporters

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    You could get counter bored chokes I guess. That might be a little easier. Had a buddy that had a model 12 that shot 50/50 he sent it to Briley had choke tubes install and got a choke that shot 60/40 and one that shot 80/20
     
  3. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    ACME POI changer


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    It just depends on how much money you now spend on shooting and how important it is to shoot well or win.

    If you don't invest a lot in it, financially or emotionally, who cares where it shoots? It only starts to matter if you have something serious in the sport.

    But you don't have to pay anyone to check the "regulation" of your barrel (s). You can do it yourself; in fact you should. Just follow the simple plan at the link above.

    So you read that and think. reasonably, "that's a lot of work. Can't I just pay someone to tell me?"

    Well, yes, but what will you get? In the first place, you don't know if the man offering the service is doing it carefully enough, professionally enough, or just in a way you have confidence in. I have paid plenty for "fittings" and so on at many sites, including the most famous one in the world. Many were a joke; none provided what I would call "professional service," including the famous one. In the main, these guys just don't adhere to standards you should have for your own gun; some apparently have no standards whatever.

    So say the stockmaker you decide to do all this, the whole schmear, says your barrels are inappropriately "regulated" and you have to have that fixed. Now what? Are you just going to send them off to, for example, Browning and wait who knows how long to get them back at what cost and then what? Are you going to trust them to have done it right? They were, after all, the ones that made them wrong in the first place.

    No, you are not going the trust them (I hope) and so it's back to the stockmaker and on and on and on.

    You can short-circuit all this by just doing it yourself. Download and print the booklet. For the price you are looking at to check the barrels (and you get a lot more too, some probably worth something - maybe the cost of the whole thing and the checking of "regulation" is just the tawny port after a good dinner) you can build a POI setup for your club and really help a lot of people besides yourself.

    And, as the booklet emphasizes, finding a disappointing "regulation" situation one day is not nearly enough to condemn a gun. You have to go back and check. And again. And again. A gun is only a loser if it fails over and over again. You are never, ever, going to be able to pay someone to do this for you unless you don't care about money at all. (And you will only follow my booklet if "you don't care about your time;" I get it.)

    And no, it's not just doubles that have "regulation" problems. A single can shoot right or left, too low of even too high for you. Some can be fixed; some can't.

    By the way, selling a gun with problems you know about but "forget to mention" is unethical but the commonest thing in the world in the gun trade. Where do you think used guns come from? In fact, there's a good question in my mind if it is "more unethical" than making high-dollar guns and not testing them to see if they are shootable.

    And the shooting world is full of guns with sylphs, dogs, dragons, all done in the blingest gold possible with "superb" wood that are just junk. Cost, name, reputation, successful sponsored shooters - none of it is a guarantee that the gun you paid so much for is any good at all. You have to test it to be sure.

    Neil
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Matt, ACME always puts the crotch of the tree too high for easy access, in my opinion. Both ACE and KING provide a more-conveniently-sized product, and BONSAI INTERNATIONAL caters to the "lesser-statured" segment of the market.

    Neil
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Somehow I feel that Bonsai comment was intended for me. 5'5" is not that short is it?
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Tron looks up to you, if that helps.

    Neil
     
  8. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Matt I will always look up to you regardless of your height.

    Bryan
     
  9. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Boy the mucks get'n deep in here.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The solution to the problem is to shoot(test and evaluate) it before you buy it. HMB
     
  11. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    If it's a new gun, send it to the manufacturer with proof of POI (pictures or pattern sheets). Also have 2 other people shoot it from a bench.

    Usually, they'll fix/replace it. If not, tell them you'll put the word out to everyone you know, including here.

    I won't name the manufacturer's but I've had at least 4 new guns that weren't regulated. It's posible with any of them.

    The last one took a year to resolve, but it got done.
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    That's easy, if you can't shoot it, don't buy it. HMB
     
  13. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Most dealers will say "Send it in to the factory". This is even more complicated if you don't have a working relationship with the dealer, or you buy the gun at a big, out of state shoot and it's sent to you.

    Not all dealers are 100% customer oriented.
     
  14. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Neil ... great information and a lot of work.

    I think that in the old days, people just adapted and "learned" how to shoot the gun. There are probably a lot more guns out there that have barrels that are not properly regulated than we would like to think about. Bill Malcolm
     
  15. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Browning in Morgan Utah did not have a single BT-100 that shot to Mfgrs spec when I sent my BT-100 to them when they first came out, mine shot less than 50/50 and they checked their inventory and they all shot off specs,

    They had to order another Gun from Japan for me, I then sent it to Moneymaker and had a rip installed to my specs, Burlie Wilson now owns that gun and will not sell it back to me.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  16. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Stockmaker57 could shed some light on this. After all I believe the OP got this particular terminology from his fitting class he's been advertising.
     
  17. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I had an O/U where the Top barrel did not shoot where it was supposed to. I would have felt guilty selling it to someone but I traded it back to the store that sold it to me Used in the first place. I guess I found out why it was for sale.
     
  18. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    You're not going to re-regulate a Browning Citori bbl. The side ribs are silver soldered, not lead soldered like a Beretta or Perazzi. The only option for a Browning is eccentric choke tubes$$

    Doug
     
  19. bossbasl

    bossbasl Well-Known Member

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    Read Neil W.'s post; lot of good information there. As stated previously, a lot of doubles (SXS and O/U) have barrel convergence issues. The factory service centers have fairly "relaxed" ideas about what constitutes a need for correction. Some brands are easier to fix than others (especially if the convergence is vertical in nature), e.g, Krieghoff's under barrel hanger arrangement. Interestingly, in shooting London Best SXS guns (Purdey, Boss, Woodward, H&H) I have never had any bit of convergence issues on guns with original barrels; they are serious about checking this during regulation and simply will not allow a gun out with this problem. I admit that the sampling size isn't what I'd like it to be, but others I know with a larger statistical basis say the same thing. Lyle
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    bossbasl, the companies you mentioned have the regulation thingie figured out!

    "(Purdey, Boss, Woodward, H&H)"

    I've always called poorly regulated SxSs and O/Us Monday guns. The above probably don't regulate barrels on Mondays??

    HAP
     
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