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Barrel blockage, barrel bursts, blow-ups

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mrskeet410, Oct 7, 2009.

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  1. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    I've seen the results of some barrel blockages. The barrel burst, or spilt, or bulged, or banana peeled. Has anyone seen otherwise?

    I've seen two blow-ups. One was caused by loading .410 powder in a 12 gauge shell. I've not heard of the results of the investigation of the cause of the other blow-up.
     
  2. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    So nobody has seen a gun blow-up from a confirmed barrel blockage?
     
  3. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    I would be interested to know how one would blow up a 12 ga. by using a powder that is appropriate for the 410.

    410 powders are a LOT slower burning than 12 ga. powders and should produce lower pressures in a 12 ga.
     
  4. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    I was just getting ready to ask that question, but Redhawk44 beat me to it.
     
  5. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Here.. in New Orleans.. I've seen a ton of barrels blown up by fence crossing.. Yep.. pushing your barrel in the mud when you cross a fence.. next shot.. shreaded barrel.. normally from the muzzle back about 10 to 12"..
     
  6. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    I think it highly unlikely that a barrel blockage in a shotgun would cause the receiver to blow up or suffer severe damage. This is because the long barrel allows the peak chamber pressure to to fall off as the ejecta (shot, gases, wad) move down the barrel. Then when this mass encounters the obstruction, pressures suddenly build again at that spot, resulting in a burst or bulged barrel. Only if the obstruction were at or very near the front of the chamber (say in the forcing cone) might pressures in the chamber area rise beyond designed peak (since the pressure would not be "bleeding off" down barrel) and reach a point where it could seriously damage or destroy the receiver. Some support for this exists in cases where a barrel is very short such as a handgun. so that the obstruction is close to the chamber. Cylinders in revolvers have been known to burst in some cases where this has occurred I believe.

    Jim R
     
  7. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Click on link, the guy forgot to take Boresight out of gun. Wayne
     
  8. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    It's hard to imagine anyone most of our ages who haven't seen a split barrel as the result of mud or snow blockage. Of course the myth busters can't make it happen so I was hallucinating all those times, on the other hand I don't think those two could pull a gerbil out of each other ass with a compass and a comealong.
     
  9. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    Mythbusters did a show on blowing up a barrel like a banana. They couldn't do it. It was funny to see them try.
     
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    redhawk44

    Hawk you are correct if the powder was dropped with a bushing for a 410 powder. As an example using Alliant 410 where the pressures range from 8500 to 11000 psi using in the range of 12.5 grains with a 1/2 ounce of shot.

    Now lets assume that the powder is run through a twelve ga bushing dropping maybe 3 to 4 times that amount of powder(maybe more)topped off with 1 1/8 ounce of lead!!!! Now what do you suppose the chamber pressure might be 3 or 4 times from 34,000 to 44,000 psi maybe more especially due to the size of the lead payload.

    Just think about it for a few second/minutes then ask yourself if it might not be like a stick of dynamite going off or worse.

    Bob Lawless
     
  11. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Redhawk,

    I agree with you. A slower powder should not cause a gun to blow up. I wonder what really happened Mrskeet? Could the man have used Bullseye by mistake?

    Ivanhoe,
    Think about it, would you feel safer with 20 grains of Red Dot or Green Dot behind your payload? Which one will give less pressure?

    Don Verna
     
  12. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    I think that what Bob is trying to point out is that if you are set up for normal 12 ga loading. Lets say just as an example you are shooting Hodgdons Clays or International Clays


    So your bushing drops 17.3 grains of Clays or 20.1 grains of International Clays

    If you accidentally put H110 in your bottle you will drop 36.7 grains of that powder with the same bushing.

    AND

    If you accidentally put Lil-Gun in your bottle you will drop 38.2 grains of that powder with the same bushing.

    Yes it is slower BUT you just put a whole bunch more in the case.

    You would need someone with a pressure barrel to test the actual levels but I suspect they would far exceed normal proof loads.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    dverna

    "Think about it, would you feel safer with 20 grains of Red Dot or Green Dot behind your payload? Which one will give less pressure?"

    Let me do it this way Don would you feel safer with 20 grains of green dot or 40 grains of green dot?

    If you are dropping 12 grains of Alliant 410 in a PW using a 2A bushing and it produces 9900 psi in a 410 shell with 1/2oz of lead. How much 410 powder would and M bushing designed to drop 19.6 grains of green dot drop???? What would it produce for pressure?

    Do you after giving what I am trying to tell you some thought still feel safer with a slower burning powder. Don I am not talking about a standard powder drop for 410 powder I am talking about powder that is being dropped from a bushing with almost twice the size whole in it.

    You don't think that this has a potential to be very dangerous? This is not a case of which is safer this is a case of how much destructive power could a mistake like this produce.

    Tell me you see what I am trying to say or if you don't understand tell me how I can make it clearer.

    BTW an M bushing is 35 bushing larger than a 2A(I don't have the bushing I need to measure the difference in Thousands of an inch.

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    There is NO WAY someone should make that kind of mistake. Anyone that ignorant needs to stop reloading and learn the basics. Anyone that stupid should never reload.

    It really is basic. Get the powder off the shelf and place on or near bench. Have only one powder at the bench at a time. Check drops. Empty the powder measure after every session and put it back into the container that is on the bench. Put the container back on the shelf.

    I am more and more convinced reloads are the major cause of gun failures. There are people reloading shotshells that incompetent. Some are too cheap to buy a scale and/or too lazy to use it.

    Ivanhoe, I see your point. I failed to take into consideration that we are dealing with a subset of reloaders that talk about "what bushing do you use".

    And they walk among us; and we shoot next to them.

    Don Verna
     
  15. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    I know for a fact that 34 grains of Bullseye will not blow up a shotgun, not a good one anyway. It will hurt like heck but not blow anything up.
     
  16. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Does twice the powder equal twice the pressure in a 12ga shotshell?
     
  17. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Don I agree 100% that there are most definitely some reloaders that shouldn't. There have also been recalls from the various powder companys because they have reason to believe that some lots for whatever reason produce higher than expected pressures.

    Copied from Alliants website

    "July 6, 2005

    Product description: Unique® smokeless powder, LOT numbers 850, 859, 861, 868, 872, 876, 890, 898 and 907.

    Warning:
    Alliant Powder has determined a very small number of eight pound (8 lb.) Alliant Powder Unique“ smokeless powder containers may contain Alliant Powder Bullseye“ smokeless powder.

    LOADING BULLSEYE“ SMOKELESS POWDER INTO ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION IN WHICH THE RECIPE CALLS FOR UNIQUE“ SMOKELESS POWDER MAY RESULT IN HIGH PRESSURE LOADS AND SUBSEQUENT GUN DAMAGE OR PERSONAL INJURY.

    If you are in possession of an eight pound (8 lb.) bottle of Alliant Powder Unique“ with any of the above noted lot numbers, please immediately cease use of this product and notify Alliant Powder by calling 800-276-9337 or emailing alliant.reloading@atk.com

    Lot numbers are located on the bottom of each bottle."

    Jerry I would expect the pressures to be more than twice as high but again until someone tests them under lab conditions in a pressure barrel it is just a who knows.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  18. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    I saw an 1100 Remington Barrel pealed back like a banana. The guy had choke tubes put in the barrel by a friend. We suspect that the choke tube was not cut properly and a wad got caught behind the choke tube, the next shot, well you know the rest of the story.
    I have seen some strange things. I removed 8 bullets from a Ruger GP100. The guy said the cylinder was locked up and "a friend" gave it back to him that way. I thought it would be an easy job but to my suprise my punch only went in the barrel about 1 inch. I had to drill each bullet and use a slide hammer to remove each bullet from the barrel. Someone actually shot six slugs into the barrel, reloaded and shot two more. The only thing that kept him from shooting more was the number 8 bullet locked up the cylinder and kept it from turning.
    The barrel had a bulge in it about 2" from the cylinder.
    This was not the only one I worked on. I had a S&W heavy barrel with six rounds stuck in the barrel. I removed them and the barrel was not damaged. I even took pictures of that one as I regretted not taking pictures of the first one. A cartridge without powder will usually only lock up the revolver. Both of these guns were fired with reloads with squib loads. I agree, some people should not attempt reloading.
    I have more stories but do not want to make this too long. Bob
     
  19. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Looks like some of these people also work at Alliant.
     
  20. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    It would appear that guns are made to all kind of standards. You would think that a light plastic wad would just go on out the barrel with the next shot and a 20ga stuck in a 12ga barrel would be certain disaster. After hearing of the inverse conclusions to both scenarios, it males me think that there are some real big differences in materials and construction.

    We have all seen many bloopers with no powder, but you would think that double charges (the opposite problem) would be nearly as common. Maybe they are but no one noticed except the shooter?
     
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