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Ballistic Problem w/Alliant Powder

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by In plain view, Apr 26, 2010.

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  1. In plain view

    In plain view Member

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    Ran into this the other day after making a number of boxes of shells. I had an abudance of Green Dot powder, Federal paper hulls and Federal 12S3 wads. I looked at the latest load information on the Alliant webb site and it showed (3-29-2010) it would take 18.5 grains of Green Dot to go 1145 fps with a psi of 7400. I don't know what made me look back in time a little and on 8-29-2007 this same load published by Alliant showed it required 19.5 grains for a psi rating of 7400. Looked further and on 4-02-2008 Alliant said the 19.5 grains was required. I thought about calling Alliant but no phone or address on their webb site. Nothing shows on the bottle of Green Dot either. What is puzzling is that the 18.5 grains of Green Dot does get the job done. Seems there is a misprint but where? The Green Dot I'm using is at least 3 years old. Thought I would pass this along. Bob in Los Angeles
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Measuring equipment has gotten much better.

    Piezo transducers that give a reliable PSI reading are now part of the deal. the old methods, with lead crusher in a small hole in the chamber for the crusher depended on the quality of the lead for verifiable results.

    I found you can get different results with the same loads on different days.

    Don't worry too much about it, you might miss a target.

    HM
     
  3. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    From IN PLAIN VIEW:

    <blockquote></I>"I thought about calling Alliant but no phone or address on their webb site."</I></blockquote>

    Of course there is.

    It's at the bottom of the contact form.

    Click on the link in the upper right of the home page titled (would you believe it) <I>"Contact"</i>

    MK
     
  4. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I called Chris Hodgdon a couple of years ago when I noticed there were some different grain weights (over several years) of 700X using the same components. He explained to me that powders do not change (burn rates) because of the base sample submitted to SAMMI, but the other components change all the time, hulls, wads, primers. So they test their powders with the latest components given to them, and they adjust the powder weight accordingly. Its best to call Alliant. Wayne
     
  5. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    Ben at Alliant will answer most e-mails within a day.

    SW
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    When new testing has been done, if the results contradict earlier data, I would venture a guess that they update the data. I clearly remember some Green Dot and Red Dot data that looked wrong. Alliant decontented the data until it could be verified or retested. They update the data on occasion without notice. Take a look for 357 Mag loads with 125 grain JHPs and Blue Dot powder. They had some issues with the data and decided to delete the data from the site. Unfortunately, they have not found a way to make changes in older manuals at the same time. It is always a wise idea to double check the latest data. If you have other sources of data, see if you can use them for a reality check.
     
  7. Borderland

    Borderland Member

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    The newer cleaner burning Greendot also seems to run higher pressure //hence the reduced charges///additionally the older Greendot was recommended for 20 ga target loads and now it is listed only as a secondary use for the 20ga. The 20ga pressures seems to rise quickly on 7/8 oz loads

    Ken
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    While all above is correct.. for 1140 fps loads.. a faster burning powder such as Red Dot/Promo would be my first choice.. Green Dot just does not perform well at the low..low PSI.. Combustion is erratic in cold weather.. and not stullar in warmer weather.. Where Green Dot shines is the 1 1/8oz at 1200-1250 fps shells..
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I am curious you wrote that you,

    "I looked at the latest load information on the Alliant webb site and it showed (3-29-2010) it would take 18.5 grains of Green Dot to go 1145 fps with a psi of 7400. I don't know what made me look back in time a little and on 8-29-2007 this same load published by Alliant showed it required 19.5 grains for a psi rating of 7400."

    So just how did you "look back in time" I tried to go back in time on that site and I can find how to do it. How do you do it????

    The other thing that isn't clear is the difference in pressure between 18.5 and 21 grains of powder in 400 PSI and about 20 FPS yet this is an issue????

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. In plain view

    In plain view Member

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    Mr. Lawless: I have a habit of keeping previously copied load data. Can't tell you why but reloading as many shells as I do I like to keep an ample supply of qualified load data around. The dates I mentioned were in my archives. They were obtained on the Alliant webb site on those specific dates. I just happened to glance at a previously printed page and noted the difference. As I mentioned my Green Dot is at least 3 years old so any recent changes in the make-up of Green Dot wouldnt apply to me. All I know is that 18.5 grains of Green Dot in the paper hull using the federal primer and the federal 12S3 wad inks targets as long as I do my part right. Recoil is super soft and relativel clean after use. I plan on calling Alliant as I don't understand the grains/psi relationship using 2 1/2 more grains of powder. Thanks to all who responded. Bob in Los Angeles
     
  11. acorange

    acorange Well-Known Member

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    INPLAINVIEW,
    I do the same thing looking at old data in my archives. It is funny how powder companies slightly change formulations and the newew data reflects that.
    But when buying old powder what data do you use?
    That is why I keep those old catalogs around.
    Some posters on here can be a PITA when it comes to many things on this site
    esp. reloading.
     
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