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Bad Buyer - FFL Issue

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by halfmile, Mar 3, 2007.

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  1. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what the deal with gunbroker is. If they don't have a mechanism for dealing with welchers they should.

    You shouldn't have to pay a commision for a sale that didn't happen.

    On the other hand. what happens when a buyer wants a 3 day inspection period?

    Also you refer to "eating the loss". What loss did you have? (not selling the gun is not a loss.)

    HM
     
  2. ol 12 shooter

    ol 12 shooter TS Member

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    I don't think I'd of left negative feedback about him. At least he corresponded with you on the deal and offered some restitution. This online buying and selling is a real crap-shoot.

    I had a similar deal on the same site, had a really nice wood set for a Mod 12 listed and some guy purchased it. Later he asked how much for shipping and I told him I didn't know for sure but to figure approx $20 + or - and if it was less I'd refund the difference if more I'd eat it. 10 days later no check and I returned to the site to see I was blocked from selling or buying, this meathead backed out and posted feedback saying I was charging too much for shipping!!!!!!without contacting me first.

    Found out it was a friend of a guy with an account using his computer and the another guys account to make purchases.

    Like I said, at least he told you out front unlike my experience.
     
  3. FarmerD

    FarmerD TS Member

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    skeet2day
    Skeeter, you scared him away with all the FFL bull crap. I don't think you had any right to foul up his name, as he offered to make up your expenses. Suck it up Pilgrim. FD
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Last time I looked at the ATF rules, there was no requirement to go FFL->FFL. Only the requirement that YOU send it to an FFL. Maybe that got his dander up...
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Skeet, the problem is it compounds the cost and doubles the paperwork for no reason. You clearly can send the gun to an FFL in another state and he can arrange to pick it up from them.


    (B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

    It's the same ol' law....no reason to make it more difficult than it is..If the law changed, they forgot to tell the ATF!!
     
  6. bgf

    bgf Active Member

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    Skeet2,

    Taken from the FAQ page of ATF:

    (B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]


    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    As I read it, the law has not changed regarding private party transfer to out of state licensees.

    Bernie
     
  7. motordoctor

    motordoctor Shoji Tabuchi in Branson

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    ohio
    Boy am I happy. Sold two guns this week and everything went perfect. FFl reeived guns and people send checks--and they were good checks. Happy with all the people here on tc.com. Motordoc
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    skeet2day,

    didn't mean to come off as jerking your chain...being a 'skeeter'and all lol.

    JRC
     
  9. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

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    I had a friend looking for a gun and I found one on this site the guy wanted around 9,000 for it but also had another gun less the barrel and said he would take 12,000 for it all.

    Well my friend called him and they made the deal and they was in different states also but my friend knowed of someone that lived not to far from where the gun was and arranged to have it brought down by him of course my friend wired or sent the seller the money first but they never went thru any FFL at all a couple days later the guy was coming to my friend area anyway and he brought him the gun.

    Ok on another deal on here I bought a 870 receiver from a guy and he was out of state also and stated it had to go to a F.F.L. dealer and skeet2day I had a F.F.L. guy also like yours and since the seller stated that it was considered a gun because it had the ser number on it then I said ok just send it to my F.F.L. guy really I didn't know but I asked my F.F.L. friend and he said the seller was correct but it didn't have to go from a F.F.L. to another F.F.L. but a regular person could send it to my F.F.L. instead so I think that is what the seller did.

    Anyway the only time I would ever use a F.F.L. to another F.F.L. is if I didn't have good feelings on the deal being made.

    Out of all the complete guns that I have bought I can only think of 1 time years ago at the grand in ohio that I had to register it with paper work but of course I bought it from a dealer on the grounds.

    I guess the rest of the times I have just bought from privite party's.

    Foghorn
     
  10. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    In many cases the laws of individual states and municipality's have additional requirements regarding not only the transfer of firearms but also the ability to even possess them. I recently finalized the purchase of a shotgun from a fine member of this forum. The fact that I live in Kalifornia where the State requires that all firearms received from out of state be transferred from FFL to FFL started out as a sticking point. Once the seller recognized Federal law was superseded by State law in this instance, the transaction proceeded smoothly. For those who still live in state's with liberal gun laws, you are blessed. I truly hope you keep electing politicians who care about protecting your individual rights. Liberals are on the march and will surely overtake many of you who believe your "constitutional rights" will stand without a fight.

    Robert
     
  11. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Foghorn. You do not in most cases, (not speaking for California, New York, Mass. or any other liberal state and their idiotic laws), have to have an FFL ship the gun to the receivers FFL. I have on numerous occasions sold guns to people in other states and all I asked for was payment and a copy of the FFL on the buyers end. I then shipped the gun to the buyers FFL who did the ATF paperwork. I can't tell you how many times I have been told that I can't send a gun through the USPS. (For repair or for sale) Only once was I challenged on the legality of this by a postal employee, (with 12 years service). I asked to speak to his supervisor and he was informed that I could do this. (After we all looked at the USPS policies) He apologized and said in the 12 years he worked for the post office, he was under the impression that no one was allowed to ship a firearm except an FFL license holder. Recently I offered to purchase a Model 12 from a gun shop in Colorado. They refused to ship the gun to my residence because I didn't have an FFL license. I told them that I had a C&R license and this license allowed me to purchase the gun. They refused to sell me the gun. They must have something against making money because the Model 12 is on the allowable C&R list of approved guns. The problem is, people are told inaccurate information and they choose to believe it. Ed
     
  12. BMC

    BMC Member

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    RobertT, when did the law change for Commifornia that transfers have to between FFLs? I live in Cali too, and bought another shotgun after the first of the year. It was sent from the owner in another state to my FFL. My FFL guy doesn't nothing but FFL transfers, hundreds and hundreds of them a year. I would think he would have told me if this had changed. I'm just curious where you got the information.
    Brian
     
  13. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Brian, I can only tell you that I spoke with five California FFL Dealers and none of them would receive an out of state firearms transfer from a private party. I would not question their lively hood by asking them to do something to jeopardize their license. Being a "Commifornia" resident you should know that the CDOJ is seeking any cause to revoke someones license. After all, no dealers, no firearms sales in the state. I am fearful for your FFL guy, the DOJ will show no mercy if he has been remiss in his business dealings.

    Robert
     
  14. BMC

    BMC Member

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    Hum, interesting Robert, I'll have to call him and ask him if he was aware of a change. He's done three out of state purchase transfers for me in the last 7 months and only one was bought from an FFL dealer. He's been inspected about four months ago, I know because I had to change an 06 to 2006 on one of the papers to satisfy the inspectors. I'll have to keep that in mind when I go searching for my next gun in the near future. Thanks.
     
  15. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Sold a Remington 870 to a guy in California a year or two ago and it had to go FFL-FFL .

    KEYBEAR
     
  16. Bawana

    Bawana TS Member

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    He should have paid you the $25 JUST BECAUSE. He made a deal and should have stuck with it. He just wanted you to send the reciever without any FFL. He will get caught at some point. Good that you did not get caught with him.
     
  17. wy_don

    wy_don TS Member

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    Just a thought, we all screw up at times. I have bought lots of things on ebay, gunbroker and auction arms. Once and only once, I was buying a sight for my old 1894 and the seller's email got caught in a new filter by our server upgrading. In other words, I was a non-paying buyer for a while. I never even got a message that I won the item. Finally, I checked my spam folder and found the message, and immediately contacted the seller and communicated the problem, I sent a MO that day and the sight arrived on time. Had the seller not made a last ditch effort, and had I not checked my spam, I would be on a blacklist.

    I have made it a policy to not buy from "we help you sell" or the like, as invariably there is an inadaquate description and some critical part is missing. I just received a Win. M12 trap stock from a fellow, and it has 2 cracks about 1/2" long where the butt pad will go. These will go away when I mount a recoil pad, but the seller should have mentioned this. I haven't given feedback on this item as I cannot figure out how to say the item should have been described better but overall it was a reasonable transaction.

    Don Ewing
     
  18. larryjk

    larryjk Member

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    skeet2day, When you are dealing with some one you don't know, you must assume they are either a bank-robbing felon, or, an ATFE agent trolling for suckers. Either way, or even dealing with an otherwise honest person, never break the law and set yourself up to spend time in a federally managed vacation facility.
    Remember, after a felony conviction, even with probation, there isn't anymore skeet, trap or sporting clays for you. And a lot of more important freedoms.
     
  19. SShooterZ

    SShooterZ Member

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    Sorry but I think skeet2day did everything right.

    He wasn't charging extra to ship from FFL-to-FLL so it was none of the buyer's concern. He said he required payment and FFL and the buyer could not provide FFL. He used the Gunbroker feedback system as it was designed. What if any of you had a transaction with this person in the future and had to go through the same crap because skeet2day didn't post any feedback? He feedback definitely acts as a seller beware as it should.

    I'm not saying the buyer is a bad person here, but "rules is rules" and either follow them or don't play.

    I think you did as can be expected skeet2day.
     
  20. JRD

    JRD TS Member

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    I havent been burnt online yet, but I'm starting to wonder about my last sale. The guy was supose to have sent the money out before Monday and was gonna contact me with his FFL info. It's been 3 days and he hasnt called and wont return my emails either.

    How long should I wait before I repost my rifle? I understand that sometimes things come up and you dont get time for internet and etc. But its going on 4 days and no respone or anything. What should I do?
     
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