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Backing out on sales

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by biggun4fun, Mar 17, 2009.

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  1. biggun4fun

    biggun4fun TS Member

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    I have had an item on this site for sale recently and have had buyers back out !
    I want people to be happy with what I am selling but they must use common sense when the items are descibed as sevarel percent from new and pics are sent. Then when the deal is struck they want new for used prices!and you to put sold on the items! All I,m saying is make your decision based on the pics and what you are told by legitament sellers and stick to it! This is a great site with good people but a deal is a deal!!!
     
  2. twostraight

    twostraight Member

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    Actually, a three day inspection is more the deal.
     
  3. tom-n8ies

    tom-n8ies Member

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    It doesn't just happen here and only to you. I think they get cold feet or buyers remorse sets in.

    There is always gunbroker.com

    tom
     
  4. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    I have been planning to identify a buyer from California that backed out on me, but I have started legal proceedings and don't want to give details until that is settled. However, this guy backed out AFTER I shipped the item, and then got PayPal (I know I shouldn't have let him use them) to give him his money back. Now he has the reloader AND my money, and won't send back the loader. What a crook (both the buyer and PayPal). I believe now, from his arrogant attitude, that he had this planned from the beginning.

    Shoot well and often,

    Mark.
     
  5. SilverShooter

    SilverShooter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
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    Cancelling payment and keeping the item is theft or larceny whether it's a shotgun, a bow or a pair of shoes. Such outright criminal behavior is hard to prevent from determined and sneaky scammers -- and i have heard of happening with paypal in the middle several times already. This is what I do:

    -- always insist on a US Postal Money Order and state clearly that no no-name money orders will not be accepted. Make this clear in your sale.
    -- no personal checks accepted at all and state clearly that they will be returned.
    -- insist on shipping item to FFL so ATF form 4473 is filled out by FFL.

    If you get a no-name money order or a cashiers check from an unheard of bank, communicate with the buyer and tell them to replace it with a USPSMO, or that you will hold it till it clears -- which could be up to 6 weeks.

    Good luck.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A verbal agreement to buy constitutes a legal contract.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. whosyourdaddy

    whosyourdaddy Member

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    biggun4fun. Thank you for starting this thread. This has been an issue with me forever, and I totally understand exactly where you are coming from. More times than I care to remember I have provided pics, detailed descriptions, and answered numerous e-mails only to find out that I am dealing with a picture collector who does not even have the common courtesy to to respond by saying I think I will pass. Or the other type of buyer who makes an offer, I accept then they decline or dissappear from the face of the earth. When I make an offer and the seller accepts, I have bought the item, simple as that. I have never had an item returned or a buyer that did not respond after receiving the it, stating that it was much better than described.The folks I have closed deals with on this site are some of the best people I have ever conducted business with, true ladies and gentlemen. We should establish a buyers code of ethics on this site, and ban those who do not comply. I can't wait to see the negative responses to this thread, as these responses will be from the biggest offenders.
     
  8. threedeuces

    threedeuces TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    638
    I for one have purchased and sold several guns on this site, along with other shooting related items and have never had a bad experience with any of the deals. I do however ask the items be paid by USPOMO. With times getting harder I would assume the fraudulent activity could pick up. Maybe some of us are just to trustworthy but I never second guess a sale or buy on here.
    I sold a person a Browning XT and stated the gun had been shot very little and could pass as brand new. When the gentlemen received it he could not believe how clean the gun was and was thrilled. Two years later I advertise a BT 99 that was shot very little and in new condition. The person that purchased my XT saw this add and said if you say it is in new condition then it must be. I will take it. So I sold the same person two different guns that lives clear across the country that has never met me face to face.
    I guess being honest in are descriptions and being fare with the person your dealing with can go along way. This site has been a very good place for people to sale things and buy things. Somehow we need to try and keep it that way.
     
  9. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    <blockquote>"A verbal agreement to buy constitutes a legal contract."</blockquote>

    It does and it doesn't. A verbal contract has three elements: the offer (an indication of a willingness to enter into a transaction; verbal offers/contracts have a finite life span; they are not eternal.), the acceptance (party offered the contract agrees to the terms) and the consideration (the exchange of something of value, usually money). Simply agreeing to buy something does not constitute a binding contract until all three elements exist.

    The problem with verbal contracts is that unless there is an impartial witness to all the three elements of the contract, the contract can be contested with little effort as the case is reduced to a condition of word against word.

    Carol Lister
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    2,959
    Caveat Emptor, Caveat Vendor.

    If you get a bad feeling don't do it!

    Unless you know the person; insist on a Check mailed to you along with a request for the item wanted.(If there is a fraud committed through the USPS they will go after them across state lines.) I don't wait for my checks to clear since it will be easy to collect.

    All sales are subject to inspection and refund. Shipping is not! Unless the item is damaged or there is a clear misunderstanding no refunds on shipping costs.

    On guns always ship from an FFL holder to an FFL holder. If anything is wrong they won't get involved; they won't risk their license.

    I have not had a bad incident buying or selling here but you need to use some common sense.

    Joe
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The problem with Postal Money orders is you have to wait for them to clear which can take up to 30 days once you deposit them into your account, so I was told by my bank ... The best way is to set up an account and have them wire the money into that account and have the bank notify you once the money has been deposited, at that point there is no cancelling the payment ... Thats the only way to go in these trying times and eliminate most problems ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Location:
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    If a seller does not want my cashiers check or certified funds, then we cal it off. Nothing sacred about USPS MOs. they get forged too. And ask your bank when you cash one, they accpt it but if it comes back you still eat the loss. The only rule is to have a system wheby you establilsh trust in te person you are buying from and selling to. All funds are manipulated by crooks, so be confident that you have trully established a real person and transaction and you should be OK wiht what the two of you work out.

    And Gun Fitter, why is it that you insist on making up these additional steps for people? Shipping from a FFL is unnecessary and complicates the transaction. California excluded. My local FFL wants nothing to do wiht outside shipping of folks guns. Tell me why they would want to be in the middle? They would only draw a measure of liability that would only cost them time and money. If you ship a gun, ship it to a FFL. Period. Gun Fitter, I see your logic, but only in cases where you are tryin gto substantialte that the gun is real, and that it will be shipped. I am guessing a FFL holder would charge upwards of 100 bucks for that. So, if that is your point, i give it to you.
     
  13. Dednlost

    Dednlost Member

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    310
    I agree MIA there is no legal reason to for someone to ask an FFL to ship a gun for them to another FFL that is handling for the buyer, you just need one on the buying end. How do you know you're shipping to an FFL? Thats easy just go to the atf easy check web site and see, if your shipping to the address of the FFL you are covered.

    But this thing about backing out I see both sides, it is dissapointing to think you have something sold and then find out you don't but people have problems, life happens, sometimes a person has every intention on following thru but something unforseen happens and they have to back out. A honest person will hate to do that and will express regret to you, why hold it against them it might be you in that situation next?

    The other deals are just plain theft and shouldn't be thought of as backing out. But I am starting to think there are a few out there who like to play a game of pretending to intend to buy something just to back out and mess with you.....nah.....I'm getting paranoid
     
  14. mollyone

    mollyone TS Member

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    these buyers may not have cold feet , just a wife



    jp
     
  15. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    1,392
    Location:
    Beloit, WI
    I am one of the buyers biggun4fun is referring to, and I have already talked to him about his post, and I can understand his frustration.

    The deal was for a Bretta unsingle barrel, I believe the description was 85% to 90%, he sent pictures and the barrel appeared to be what we were looking for, I asked for a 1 to 2 day inspection to make sure it shot straight. He did not want to give the inspection, and replied that a friend of his shot the barrel for several years and never said anything was wrong with it. I was going to take him for his word on that. The finish on the barrel didn't matter as I am putting this gun together for another person, and it was going to be re blued.

    After I agreed to purchase, biggun4fun called me and explained that there was a line around the barrel about 1.5 inches from the end that looked like some one started to cut the end off but decided not to. After talking to him it was determined that maybe something was soldered on the end of the barrel.

    He was going to clean the inside of the barrel and see if there was a line on the inside, in the mean time I sent pictures to the person I was building the gun for, and explained it to him.....he stated that maybe we should look for another barrel that is not suspect, and also pointed out that seller wouldn't give inspection days to the purchase. And I totally agree with him.

    Biggun4fun then got back to me and said there was also a parting line around the inside of the barrel. I explained to him that the person the gun was being built for decided to decline the purchase because of this rework done to the end of the barrel, I also explained to biggun4fun that I thought the barrel would be ok to shoot, but my customer was not comfortable purchasing it and being stuck with it.

    I have purchased several guns and parts off this site, and have good luck, but you can not always see all the faults in a picture taken in poor lighting.

    I have purchased another barrel from another site a few years ago, and the thing didn't shoot straight, and I was basically told to go pound sand, and I had no recourse, so if you have ever been burned by someone you don't know, you would be wary also.

    With that said, I am grateful that biggun4fun called me and told me about the rework before it showed up here and then we were not happy.


    So flame away!!!!! because sometimes there are 2 sides to a story, and no matter what some of you think, there are allot of low lives out there that would have no problems passing their junk off to someone across country, where it is impossible to recoup your hard earned dollars after you get screwed.


    tony
     
  16. biggun4fun

    biggun4fun TS Member

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    I recieved a phone call this morning from Tony with him explaining that he took this thread personally ,not my intentions at all.I also listed no names and no items that were involvedI still think I was very honest and in no way am I tring to screw anyone !!!!!all I,m saying is if you want new barrel go spend $1600 on one and do not expect to buy one for a third of what a new one costs! A parting note:
    I said 70-80percent is this not a objective opinion???
    Another man,s junk is another man,s treasure!

    Allen
     
  17. beaker100

    beaker100 Member

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    hi dednlost and mia, to SELL a firearm thru the mail you must have a FFL on the shipping end and a FFL on the receiving end. this is part of the gun control act of 1968.

    to get repair of a firearm thru the mail an FFL is required on the receiving end (the gunsmith) only. the firearm must be returned to the person who shipped the gun to the gunsmith.

    all good doug hubbart
     
  18. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    Allen, we were not looking for a new barrel, the finish was fine for us to re blue, the problem was with the reworked choke that you brought to my attention, my customer was not comfortable with it....end of story.

    I think your barrel will make someone a fine gun, if they know all the details and are able to inspect it, but if the customer is not comfortable purchasing they are not going to be happy.

    I do think you were honest....there is no question about this, but the rework on the end of the barrel was brought up after the agreement, and I am glad that you did call and inform me about it before money changed hands and it was shipped.


    thank you!!

    tony
     
  19. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    If I sell to a TS.com person who posts all the time, I worry not. I trust them a lot more than I trust our President. If I don't know of the poster and suspect he or she may be new, I ask other folks on here by PM if they know of them, normally I find out good things and go ahead with a deal. Most everyone on here belongs to a club somewhere and you can find out whatever you want to know. I believe in disclosing the exact condition so there are no surprises and would go to no end to make the buyer happy including a refund no matter what or how I felt.
     
  20. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Doug, are you sure about that? I would like to see that in print from the ATF website.
     
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