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back fencers are NOT that tough

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Doug Briggs, Mar 1, 2010.

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  1. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs TS Member

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    Some stats compiled from the 5 handicap events at the Spring Grand. IF my math is right.

    27 yard shooters won 70 of 125 punches (not yards) or 56%

    However, back fencers accounted for 1179 of 2687 entries or 44%

    While the ratio of punches won to participation is statistically significant, I do not see a domination by 27 yarders that would merit changes to the present system.

    What is your opinion?
     
  2. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    I hope your not using light tackle.




    Jim
     
  3. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs TS Member

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    gorilla braid, 100 lb. test leader, and Gamakatsu 4/0 treble

    By the way, I am B/24/C
     
  4. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    Your stats show just how good the 27 yard shooters are when taken as a group. They got 56% of the punches with only 44% of the shooters. Also if you were to weed out all of the "27 yarders" that have refused reductions the remaining backfencers would show how dominant they can be. That still doesn't mean that the system "merits changes". It just means that one should recognize that it is statistically unrealistic to expect to beat the creme of the 27 yard group no matter what yardage you are shooting from. They are simply better at pointing a shotgun. Rick ~~~Texas
     
  5. vdt

    vdt Active Member

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    here..here
     
  6. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

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    Good answer Rick simple and to the point.Jerry
     
  7. Hivoltfl

    Hivoltfl Member

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    I gotta agree with Rick, they didnt get back there and earn them punches without being damn good shooters. Gotta tip my hat to em.

    Rick
     
  8. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I rest Ricks case.....

    Dave
     
  9. Lyle

    Lyle Member

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    I thought there were plenty of low scores after looking at the results. Early in the year?

    Lyle
     
  10. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    There were five handicap events for the Spring Grand. Here are the high scores for each handicap event listed by yardage.

    Event 2 (27)

    Event 4 (27, 19)

    Event 6 (27, 27, 27, 26)

    Event 10 (27, 27, 27)

    Event 12 (27,27)

    Be hard to get more dominate than that! The lone 19 yarder saved it from a clean sweep by long yardage.

    Mark Rounds
     
  11. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    We should expect the long yardage boys to make a good showing. They didn't get there by shooting poor scores. Simply put, they are the cream of the crop. J.W.
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Doug Briggs

    "Some stats compiled from the 5 handicap events at the Spring Grand. IF my math is right. 27 yard shooters won 70 of 125 punches (not yards) or 56%However, back fencers accounted for 1179 of 2687 entries or 44%"

    Interesting Doug so tell us how many of those 56% actually moved from the 27yd line to a yardage that was farther from the trap? Then tell us how many of the 44% moved farther from the trap?

    If the answer is as we all know the answer to be who got a greater handicap and who didn't??????

    Remember now(If you bother to answer)equal scores are supposed to pay equal yardage. Doug what you need to do before you make threads like this is read the entire section D on page 24 in the current on line rulebook. It starts out.

    D. EARNED YARDAGE
    1. Yardage will be automatically earned by shooters of high scores in all
    ATA registered events, according to the following table. This additional
    yardage is indicated by punches on the shooter’s Average Card.

    Now I have read that section many times and have yet to find one thing in it that says 27yd shooters are exempt from the same actions for an equal score. Should a 27yd shooter get an honorary yardage pay out because he is the cream of the crop?????

    A 100 or a 99 to a 27yd shooter means payday with no penalty. The same score to a 24yd shooter means payday plus 1 1/2 or 1yd penalty respectively.

    Does that seem equal and equitable to you Doug?????

    BTW if they stay there for another 10 years how tough will they be? Many of them have been there that long and many much longer.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. slipping into darkness

    slipping into darkness TS Member

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    New bait, everthing is find with the present Hcp system.. if you feel there must be a change, no need to pour more concrete, just jack up the speed and angles! playing field just got more "equal"? "Not really", Good shooter's will again "domanate" average shooter's will shoot worse. So put in the time and effort or quit. I know it's not "fair" you want them standing at the 50 yd line if thats where they belong. the never ending gripe. hows that for chuming? slid Will be hearing from you soon
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If one wants to only look at a few large shoots, a case can be made that a small group of 27 yard shooters do win a lot of the events. These shoots attract the very best 27 yard shooters. But that only supports the conclusion that a sub-group of 27 yard shooters tend to dominate the larger shoots that offer All American points and larger purses. If one wants to consider if the 27 yard shooters dominate ATA trap, then all shoots must be considered. This can easily be done by scrolling a few pages near the back of any Trap and Field issue.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Pat is exactly right...the "pros" don't win when they are not there!

    Mark
     
  16. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    HUH???? Do not tell that to all the D, C and B 16yd shooters. Because most of the back fencers have a higher handicap average than those people in D,C and B.


    GS
     
  17. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    If you even want to know something, anything about shooting trap ask a short or mid yardage shooter because they know everything ... Its amazing that none of them have clinics like a few of the "Top Guns" who have proven themself time and time again over the years ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  18. LDAdd

    LDAdd TS Member

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    Well, I think it's obvious that 10% of them ARE THAT TOUGH!!! Just look at all the big shoots and records. What I don't like to hear is the sniveling that these guys should be handicapped beyond 27 yards and 2/3 hole targets. They'll still dominate and that's fine. There are lots of shoots around that they don't go to for us other 90%, and it's still damned hard to win.

    If the game doesn't suit you, go play something else.

    Cheers

    Larry
     
  19. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

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    Larry makes a couple good points,if you don't want to shoot against the big dogs don't go to big shoots,and it's only the elite few who can dominate under all conditions,in my neck of the woods you seldom see 27 yd shooters dominate in poor weather especially windy conditions,and there is wind more often than not,but on a nice calm day the long yardage group is generally gonna open a can of whoop ass.Jerry
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    LDAdd

    "What I don't like to hear is the sniveling that these guys should be handicapped beyond 27 yards"

    Well Larry if you think about it a little you might just find that it is more than just ten 10%. Sniveling WOW!!!! Now that an angle the rulebook specifically states that if you win or shoot a qualifying score. You will earn yardage and for 55 years the payout to 27 yard shooter has been ignored.

    Sniveling I hardly think so there are a lot of thing you can call it but sniveling is hardly one of them. Patient comes to mind, so does fair, equal equitable, just. Those all come to mind but sniveling just doesn't fit.

    Bob Lawless
     
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