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B-17 Crash and burn

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by mrskeet410, Jun 14, 2011.

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  1. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    news article at link
     
  2. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    video at link
     
  3. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    A true shame. I am glad that all on board survived BUT there are so few of these great planes remaining (especially in flying condition)that every loss is felt. I remember a couple of years ago when every gun at Fairfax fell silent as a B-17 (It could very well have been the Liberty Belle) came by on approach.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  4. Porcupine

    Porcupine Active Member

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    This was painful to watch.

    LA in MA
     
  5. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Once again the B17 proves how rugged it was, crash land in a cornfield and everyone walks away, very sad to see a national treasure burn.
     
  6. Suncutter

    Suncutter TS Member

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    What a shame......
     
  7. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I used to work as IT director for a mayor who was a B-17 pilot and who flew many missions over Germany. His office held many B-17 and WW II items. One of these was a book entitled "Queens Die Proudly".

    The B-17 was considered to be the "Queen of the Air."

    This book told the story of B-17's that fought in the early days against Japan in the Far East theater - Java, New Guinea, Borneo and Sumatra. According to the book, the early B-17's did not have a tail gunner position and the Jap Zeros and Oscars would try to attack directly from behind. As such, the B-17's would fly in pairs so the side gunners could protect each others tail.

    The Army Air Corps units then started to receive the then new "D" or "E" model which was equipped with twin 50 cal's in the tail. On one of the first flights of the new model, the Jap fighters kept attacking from the tail position and many were immediately shot down. One wise Jap fighter finally realized what was going on and returned to base with the news. The Japs then sadly changed their tactics.

    Early in the war in the Far East, The Japs were supreme and B-17's often flew without fighter support. The book tells the story of several B-17's that did not make it back.

    Queens Die Proudly.

    Ed Ward
     
  8. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    B-17G came out with the chin (nose) turret. The was the definitive model and last major design change. Before the B-17G, the Germans liked to attacked head-on. Closing speed was almost doubled and though the Germans could usually see a big bomber in formation, a small German fighter coming head-on was often not seen before his guns started showing muzzle flashes. By then he had often done his damage and was past before effective defensive fire from the B-17 was returned.

    A head-on attacked often killed the pilot and co-pilot which doomed the plane and generally the easiest way to destroy a B-17. The chin turret greatly reduced the head-on attacks.
     
  9. KS-OKIE

    KS-OKIE TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    What a shame.I took a tour of this plane when it was in Kansas City in mid May.Went down to the old downtown airport to see it.Took a lot of pictures.They wanted $480.00 for a ride and $900.00 for a ride in a 2 seater Curtis P-40...KS-OKIE.
     
  10. ExFedex

    ExFedex Active Member

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    Subject: Fw: More info on Liberty Belle





    Buddy, Pay close attention to the number of passengers they flew before the fire!! You are safe to go.





    Subject: More info on Liberty Belle


    On this link check out the "Raw Video" taken from the chopper.

    http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8187278

    This just in from the Liberty Belle facebook page.

    First, let me start off by sincerely thanking everyone for the outpouring of support that we are receiving. I am sorry that I have not yet had the opportunity to return the many phone calls, text or e-mails that I am receiving offering to help. Again, thank you for all of the kind words that we are receiving and for incredible offers to help emotionally, financially and/or with the recovery process. I hope this statement will help fill in a few details that everyone is wondering about that led to the loss of our “Liberty Belle”.

    Yesterday morning, both our P-40 and B-17 were scheduled to fly from Aurora, Illinois to Indianapolis, Indiana. We were in Aurora for the weekend as a part of our scheduled tour. Over the course of the previous week, we completed a scheduled 25-hour inspection on the B-17 which was completed by Saturday. On Saturday, the weather stayed below the required ceiling to give any passenger flights, however the B-17 flew in the morning on a routine training proficiency flight, performing several patterns. Following the flight, other maintenance issues arose that required us to cancel our Sunday flying schedule for repairs. The maintenance performed has not been, in any way, associated to the chain of events that led to Monday’s fateful flight, but is being considered in the preliminary investigation. However, due to the media’s sensational (mis)reporting, there is a large amount of misinformation that continues to lead the news.

    Here is what we do know… Flying in the left seat of the B-17 was Capt. John Hess. John has been flying our Liberty Belle since 2005 and one of our most experienced B-17 pilots. He is an active Delta Air Lines Captain with over 14,000 hours of flying experience and flys a variety of vintage WWII aircraft. In the right seat was Bud Sittic. While Bud is new to the Liberty Foundation this year, he is also incredibly experienced with over 14,000 hours of flying time in vintage and hi-performance aircraft. He is a retired Captain with Delta Air Lines.

    The news misidentified the P-40 as flying chase during the accident. I was flying our P-40, however I had departed 20 minutes prior to the B-17’s takeoff on the short flight to Indianapolis to setup for the B-17’s arrival. The aircraft flying chase was a T-6 Texan flown by owner Cullen Underwood. Cullen is one of our rated B-17 Captains and an experienced aviator tagging along as a support ship.

    The takeoff of both aircraft was uneventful and proceeded on-course southeast. Prior to exiting Aurora’s airport traffic area, the B-17 crew and passengers began investigating an acrid smell and started a turn back to the airport. Almost immediately thereafter, Cullen spotted flames coming from the left wing and reported over the radio that they were on fire.

    As all pilots know, there are few emergency situations that are more critical than having an in-flight fire. While an in-flight fire is extremely rare, it can (and sometimes does) indiscriminately affect aircraft of any age or type. In-flight fires have led to the loss of not only aircraft, but often can result in catastrophic loss of life. It requires an immediate action on the flight crew, as the integrity of aircraft structure, systems and critical components are in question.

    Directly below the B-17 was a farmer’s field and the decision was made to land immediately. Approximately 1 minute and 40 seconds from the radio report of the fire, the B-17 was down safely on the field. Within that 1:40 time frame, the crew shutdown and feathered the number 2 engine, activated the engine’s fire suppression system, lowered the landing gear and performed an on-speed landing. Bringing the B-17 to a quick stop, the crew and passengers quickly and safely exited the aircraft. Overhead in the T-6, Cullen professionally coordinated and directed the firefighting equipment which was dispatched by Aurora Tower to the landing location.

    Unlike the sensational photos that you have all seen of the completely burned B-17 on the news, you will see from photos taken by our crew that our Liberty Belle was undamaged by the forced landing and at the time of landing, the wing fire damage was relatively small. The crew actually unloaded bags, then had the horrible task of watching the aircraft slowly burn while waiting for the fire trucks to arrive. There were high hopes that the fire would be extinguished quickly and the damage would be repairable. Those hopes were diminished as the fire trucks deemed the field too soft to cross due to the area’s recent rainfall. So while standing by our burning B-17 and watching the fire trucks parked at the field’s edge, they sadly watched the wing fire spread to the aircraft’s fuel cells and of course, you all have seen the end result. There is no doubt that had the fire equipment been able to reach our aircraft, the fire would have been quickly extinguished and our Liberty Belle would have been repaired to continue her worthwhile mission.

    Let me go on the record by thanking the flight crew for their professionalism. Their actions were nothing short of heroic and their quick thinking, actions and experience led to a “successful” outcome to this serious in-flight emergency. John and Bud (and Cullen) did a remarkable job under extreme circumstances and performed spectacularly. While the leading news stories have repeatedly reported the “crash” of our B-17, fact is they made a successful forced landing and the aircraft was ultimately consumed by fire. Airplanes are replaceable but people are not and while the aircraft’s loss is tragic, it was a successful result.

    This leads me into discussing the exceptional safety record of the Boeing B-17 and to hopefully squash the naysayers who preach we should not be flying these types of aircraft. Since we first flew the “Liberty Belle” in December of 2004, we have flown over 20,000 passengers throughout the country and if you count our historic trip to Europe in 2008, worldwide. Of the other touring B-17s, some of which that have been touring for over 20 years, they have safely flown hundreds of thousands of people. The aircraft’s safety record is spectacular and I am certain the overall cause of our issue, which is under investigation, will not tarnish that safety record. In fact, as many of you know, other B-17 have suffered significant damage (although not as bad as ours!), only to be re-built to fly again. From a passenger carrying standpoint, I can think of few aircraft that offer the same level of safety as the 4-engine “Flying Fortress”. As mentioned earlier, in-flight fires are extremely rare and certainly could affect any powered aircraft under certain circumstances. I would put my children today in any of the other touring B-17s to go fly. I suggest to anyone that was thinking of doing so when a B-17 visits your area to do so without giving our loss any thought.

    There is wild speculation going on as to the cause of our fire and the affect to other operators. Please let the investigation run its course and report the findings. The NTSB and FAA were quickly on the scene and we are working closely with them to aid in the investigation. As soon as we receive some additional information, we will release it via the website http://www.libertyfoundation.org/.

    The ultimate question remains, where does the Liberty Foundation go from here? After the investigation and recovery, we will determine our options. We are still committed to the restoration and flying of World War II aircraft. Again, we appreciate the support and people offering to help get us back flying.

    Please check back for updates. I will close by thanking everyone that made our tour so successful. From the first day of the B-17’s restoration, thank you for all of you who labored to get her flying over the initial restoration years and to everyone that has worked on her out on tour since. Thank you to the crewmembers, tour coordinators and volunteers who gave up weekends and countless hours to support her on the road. And finally, thank you to the passengers, donors and media patrons that flew aboard and everyone who supported our cause. Hopefully, this will not be the end of the story, but a new beginning.

    Regards,

    Ray Fowler

    The Liberty Foundation, Chief Pilot
     
  11. triplea

    triplea TS Member

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    Having the chance to ride in Liberty Bell last year, what a thrill, I pains me to see this historic plane destroyed. Being a former pilot and a war bird buff I believe that these planes should continue to fly and that people should enjoy and help support these people and planes so they do not exist only as museum pieces.

    David Proper
     
  12. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to see another piece of history lost.
     
  13. charlie01

    charlie01 TS Member

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    I flew on the Liberty Belle on July 4th 2009 out of Indianapolis on their first flight of the day. What a great experience, I would love to do it again.The whole plane was signed by all over by WWII vets. What a terrible loss! Everyone there that was envolved with the foundation that day could not have been nicer. They even let us take our bikes out on the runway for a photo shoot. Hopefully they can get their other B-17 flying in the near future for other people to enjoy. Thanks liberty belle foundation for the memories! Steve
    [​IMG]
     
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