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Automobile Propeller..............

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by biff, Mar 10, 2008.

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  1. biff

    biff Active Member

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    There has been many discussions on here about the rising cost of shooting from components, shells and fees as well as the rising gasoline prices. It appears there is nothing we can do about that and these rising costs will cause many shooters to cut back or maybe quit shooting all together.

    I know there was a thread on here recently, with many skeptics of course, about alternative methods to beat rising fuel costs with one of them being the use of Hydrogen Generators for increasing fuel efficiency. I wondered if anyone on here who has actually tried this method would be brave enough to share their experiences and efforts in this area. I am interested in increasing the mileage of my non "Green" 14 MPG vehicle and would like to hear from someone of the TS.Com family who has actually tried this technology and if it really works. I have read, watched videos as to the claims of increasing gas mileage anywhere from 15% to 81% though the use of battery powering a Hydrogen generator to produce HH2 vapor which mixes with the gas going in the intake of your engine increasing the power and effeciency.

    If you are interested or curious in this technology, there are many sites offering plans to build your own. Water4Gas.com is one but many more are available if you Google many of the sites about running your car on water power.

    LISTEN UP! Go directly to a JOKE thread if you have nothing but skeptism or ridicule, don't waste anyone's time or the space on this thread, I'm not interested in how funny you are! Hopefully each of us can learn something which in the long run can help us when we share imformation. Thanks, John Payne
     
  2. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I am currently looking at the results of a product that I have been asked to rep, it's called Nano-Jet and in theory the prodcut is designed to break down liguid fuel prior to it being introduce to the combustion chamber. I have promising test results showing fuel mialge increase by as much as 15% and reductions in hydrocarbon emissions by 8%. I have testimonials form three local trucking companies. I am installing a unit on my 99 Explorer this week igve me two weeks of test and I'll let you know how it works.
     
  3. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    John, what oxidizer is used to create hydrogen gas for injection? The cost of creating hydrogen gas is very expensive, probably offsetting any mileage gains.

    There's also the danger of introducing hydrogen gas into a non-sealed environment.

    Dennis
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Maybe my late friend's 6-cycle engine patent ought to be reexamined.
     
  5. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Jerry, in one of the articles it did say without their computer over rider, there would be insignificant gain by introducing Hydrogen gas into the intake. Possibly if I could get the computer to read and make lean, my gas mileage would improve. When the engine is idling there is a stong smell of raw unburned gas, it's a 350 chevy efi V8. I'm still reading all the info I can find before I start to add any gadgets; I was ready to impulsively jump in with the Hydrogen generator till I read it only worked in conjunction with the computer over ride!

    Dennis, they are using simple battery power from the cars battery with simple stainless steel plates or even coiled stainless wire in a container with H2O solution which will generate the Hydrogen gas which is transferred to the intake. Looks almost too simple and I'm sure there is much more to it than it appears, this gas is not compressed like the stuff you probably make. In theory it does look simple and most of the people involved in all the experimentation are not appearing to be rip off artists~~ the Water4Gas website has alot of info and are selling plans but if it did work with the improvement of mileage at todays gas prices it would pay for itself very quickly; or so I feel it would in my case.

    Bruce, I looked up the Nano-jet system but could not figure what principal it was alleging to do. It appears to use magnets, but not like the ones which were just attached to the fuel line making great claims. I will be very interested to see what your results will be, if it works, it would be one of the simpler methods to improve gas mileage.

    Back to the internet to see what else is written about this topic. John
     
  6. ukwildcat

    ukwildcat Member

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    It Is called HHO Gas, Google it for info.

    Jeff Dean
     
  7. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    biff, are you really that much of a sucker? If you really want increased fuel mileage, it's quite easy- just get your fat ass out of the vehicle and push it. LOL
     
  8. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Lets think, smaller cars with smaller engines and fewer accessories, lighter weigh materials, driving slower, driving less, carpooling, using public transportation.

    Naaah, lets try nano-jets and magnets. That's more likely to work!
     
  9. H82MIS

    H82MIS TS Member

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    Dog,,,That was classic,,,lol
     
  10. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the below quoted statement leads me to ask the question, since this breakdown of water (2 H2O into 2 H2 + O2) requires electrical energy, where does the electrical energy come from?

    The alternator is my logical answer but then follow it up with a second question, where does the mechanical energy to drive the alternator come from? My logical answer would say, the gasoline fuel burned in the engine! Even if a system were 100& efficient, that would only allow a break even result. It would also need you to use the O2 released as an oxidizer for your combustion. Using atmospheric O2 adds about 78% nitrogen which does not contribute energy. And remember the end result is 2 H2 + O2 -- 2 H20. Next question is what is the H2O SOLUTION??? My guess would say some type of salt (or maybe a peroxide).


    "they are using simple battery power from the cars battery with simple stainless steel plates or even coiled stainless wire in a container with H2O solution which will generate the Hydrogen gas which is transferred to the intake."
     
  11. Dave90T

    Dave90T TS Member

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    Timb99,

    Allow me to translate your post:

    "Lets think, smaller cars with smaller engines and fewer accessories, lighter weigh materials, driving slower, driving less, carpooling, using public transportation."

    Translated:

    "Lets think, glorified golf carts with glorified lawn mower engines and no AC/heat/Radio, tin foil-like materials, taking much longer to get anywhere, a French-ish 3-day work week, riding with strangers, using public trans aka in my neck of the woods trying to jump in the back of pick-up trucks at 40mph."

    As if its bad enough people with 6-cyl engines don't know how to merge on the highway, we're going to make them drive a 4-cyl with poor gearing? People who voluntarily drive those cars can't even drive them. So people will still speed, now we'll have more fatal accidents cause we want lighter cars..lighter = more prone to crush/flip/etc...unless you want expensive cars cause of expensive alloy materials. Drive less my foot, not all of us live in the city and unless you're friends/family you have no business "carpooling" in my car. And as for public trans, what is that anyway??

    The technology is here and coming to upgrade what we have, so lets use it instead of downgrading back to the dark ages.
     
  12. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    What happens to the stainless steel plate, or coil, when the process is completed? When the hydrogen is extracted the oxygen remaining will bind to some part of the stainless steel. Is it the steel (rust), nickel, or carbon (dioxide/monoxide)?

    The load on the car's alternator must be huge. The more drag from the alternator, the larger power loss and heat generation by the engine. Higher heat means increased oil and engine cooling. This seems like a huge energy user, just to make hydrogen on the fly. Why bother? There is no economy of scale here.

    Best,
    Dennis
     
  13. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Dave90T

    Your word prove my point.

    Americans have this "somebody needs to fix it, but don't make me have to sacrifice one little thing to make anything better" attitude.

    I'd say most of the folks on this forum consider themselves conservatives. The root word of Conservative is CONSERVE.

    Conservation is easy. Its just that Americans are too lazy or self-absorbed to do it.
     
  14. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    Is this a "JOKE" thread????????????????????Roger
     
  15. biff

    biff Active Member

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    Roger you would think so by reading the threads by the"Hyjackers", I asked for the skeptics to stay off this thread, I'm not the least bit amused by their humor. Just delete your posts and go away!

    Dennis have you read anything on line about this process? You need to think outside of the box; they laughed at Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, and Stan Meyer and looked what happened. John
     
  16. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you will find any free lunches in producing H2 electrolytically off a vehicle electrical system. If we ever do see H2 as a common place motor fuel it will require a huge amount of low cost electrical power. (not in my back yard stuff)

    I did have a fair amount of success with our 2004 1/2 ton GMC 5.3L by replacing the exhaust system with a 2 1/2" performance sytem, a low restriction air intake and a performance chip. Hi-way milage went from about 17 MpG to around 22 MpG. Most of that was at 70 to 75 MpH with no cargo. It cost about $1,200 to do all this so it will take about 25,000 miles to pay for the upgrades through reduced fuel usage. A word of caution here, the exhaust system modifications that I did wouldn't be legal in some states so do some checking before you get out the torch. Another thing to consider when tuning for milage is the gearing. Most of the bigger pickups have gear ratios that are intended for heavy loads and result in high engine rpms at hi-way speeds. If you don't tow consider a lower gear ratio.
     
  17. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    John, I've read a few articles about self-contained hydrogen generators. These efforts all suffer from the lack of being able to efficiently generate hydrogen. These efforts, right now, are merely lab experiments in a limited environment. In order to make any of these ideas workable, they have to be scaled upward in the realm of sixteen million units annually.

    How well do they work at 10k feet altitude, 100 degree heat, -50 degree cold, or 98% humidity, or combinations of the foregoing?

    How efficient is it to have fifteen million small hydrogen generators? Looking at it from a manufacturers perspective, it's much more efficient to have an on-board tank, and limit hydrogen production to efficient facilities.

    If you're referring to the process, I believe it falls under electrolysis. Electrolysis creates chemical side effects which have to be dealt with by someone.

    These are but a few of the questions which have to be answered. It's not about thinking outside the box. It's about producing efficiently and economically within the box.

    The existing infrastructure for gasoline and oil can't be used for ethanol. Oil and gasoline are sent through pipelines using water. Water can't be used to send ethanol. There's no way to separate water and alcohol, once mixed. There's also the corrosion which has to be dealt with in some manner.

    PS - I worked in the auto industry for over 38 years. There won't be any technology used that is not scalable to the market, and for which an infrastructure can't be economically built.

    Best,
    Dennis
     
  18. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    I'm still waiting to hear about this automobile propeller biff used to entice me to open this thread. Are you talking about a 2-bladed propeller, a 4-blade, or what?

    You people, please don't laugh at biff or his thread, or make jokes about same because biff has a very thin skin.
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Biff,

    Looking for something that works is the problem. There are so many snake oil vendors out there selling their version to anyone who would believe their pitch. If something truly worked, it would be in wider use. I'm VERY skeptical. If you added up all of the gains you'd get from all of the Whitney catalog items, you'd be making fuel.:) I don't believe the hype. Smaller engines, slower speeds, less drag, and reduced weight are the best ways to conserve energy, when it comes to fuel economy. You just can't bolt on some magic box and expect to gain much of anything. A little tweaking of the engine control systems and some more efficient intake, fuel delivery, and exaust systems might help a little bit. I just doubt it would make enough of a difference to make it worthwhile. Most of the manufacturers are looking to increase fuel economy these days. If something were truly bullet proof and cost efficient, it would be in your vehicle already.

    I did heat a large shop for years by burning waste oil in a special Lanair heating furnace. That was a free deal for me, since we had more waste oil than we knew what to do with. All it cost me was the purchase of the furnace. Burning Bio Diesel or other alternative fuels might be a way out, but only if the cost of the fuels is low and the supply is plentiful.
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Just point your speakers to the rear and use them as boosters. Loud rap music ought to be good for a 5 mpg increase!
     
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