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ATTN: COLORADO SHOOTERS IMPORTANT CSTA NEWS

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by bellemandi, Jul 2, 2008.

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  1. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    Among several issues that the CSTA is facing this year is the ongoing issue to balance our budget. Just like every other corporation in this country we are faced with the challenge to make changes to stay afloat in today’s economy. During the past 5 years we have seen a steady decline of memberships as well as an increase in our expenses. Most of our revenue stream comes from memberships and daily fees. During the past 5 years we have also used our yearly building fund interest as income instead of adding this interest to our existing building fund. In addition to this we have not added money to our building fund as we should be doing per our by-laws. During the past year we have eliminated some expenses such as the junior rebate programs as well as trophies for the Zone shoot. This has helped the bottom line somewhat but again due to the decline in membership and daily fees we need to do more to improve our situation. The purpose of this is to get feedback from all Colorado shooters. We, as your Board of Directors care about your opinion and want to reach to all of you to find out what you think of all of this. Please talk to your club or at large Delegates. You are welcome to send ideas or thoughts via this thread. We have an upcoming meeting in late July where we are hoping to come up with a solution so we can move forward. I know nobody wants to see a price increase but at this point it appears that it is our only solution. I can tell you that we have gone over the expenses and frankly there is not much area where we can trim the fat.
    The following are two options that we can benefit from:

    Option A: Raise daily fees by $1.50
    Raise individual CSTA yearly membership by $2.00
    Establish a trophy fee for our State shoot of $1.00 per 100 targets.

    Option B: Raise daily fees by $2.00
    Raise individual CSTA yearly membership by $2.00
    Establish a trophy fee four our State shoot of $1.00 per 100 targets.
    This option would reinstate the Junior rebate program with the following requirements: 1. CSTA would reimburse clubs for ¼ of the target fees
    2. Jr. or Sub Jr. can not play any money
    3. If Jr. or Sub Jr. plays any money at during the ATA calendar year and has any winnings he/she can no longer shoot half price targets for the remainder of the ATA year. This would only apply to targets shot in Colorado.
    On Sunday July 5th, Pawnee Sportsmens Center will hold their Northern Zone Qualifier. We will be having a meeting to discuss this issue between Singles and Handicap. I urge you to come down even if you are not a member of the Northern Zone. Your opinion counts!!!!!!
    You are welcome to respond with thoughts, ideas, etc. via this thread or if you want to send me an email you can at lgedo@aol.com.
    Sincerely,
    Luis Gedo, Northern Zone V.P.
     
  2. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    Sporshot: This is Luis (not Gus). Anyway, CSTA long ago established a building fund (it is in our by-laws) for the purpose of either helping clubs to expand their facilities to hold either a zone or State shoot by borrowing money from our building fund at no interest and payable in 7 years. It is also there in the event that CSTA is to find a home grounds so we can hold our State and Zone shoots. Even though the later is a long shot there are some option available in the near future that we come into play.
    As far as between option A and B, it is something that we have to offer due to the fact that the Jr. rebate is a sore subject with abou half of the shooters in Colorado.
    As far as Colorado Clays holding the State shoot, it would be impossible to hold the State shoot with only 7-8 traps unless to limit the entries. Colorado Clays though has the option to ask for funds to improve their facilities if they wish.
    LG
     
  3. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    It has been a very long time since any club borrowed any funds. Again, the option is there and available. Every club Delegate is aware of this and they are welcome to contact us to put a proposal together.
    As far as the Jr. rebate, it is up for discussion, I do not lean one way or ther other, everyone has their opinion and I guess will see what happens.
     
  4. ray119

    ray119 TS Member

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    Trophy fee is a great idea, I would gladly pay a $1 trophy fee per 100 targets to improve the quality of Dollar store type merchandise presented at the state shoot this year.

    Surrounding state shoots provide really high quality awards, lets collect and spend some money to present something worthwhile and memorible for those attending Colorado's shoot. Ray S.
     
  5. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    Ray119

    Not sure where you got the Dollar store type merchandise idea. You may want further research that comment. Anyhow, that is not the point. You are missing the idea. The $1.00 trophy fee is help with our CSTA budget.
     
  6. colobiggun

    colobiggun Active Member

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    I am glad you referred to the CSTA as a corporation. It seems too many of our clubs have forgotten that this is a business and needs to be run as such. Number 1 - Recognize your customers and treat them as a customer!!! We have been to several shoots where we were made to feel as if the club was doing us a favor by throwing targets for us. I think they forgot that we paid for this service, and expected good service. This business is not unlike others, where if you are treated badly, you will go elsewhere to spend your money.

    I have been to shoots this year where the management stated in a public area for all to hear "If you don't like it, don't come back!!" The next shoot there were only 4 squads for the main handicap.

    I don't think people will mind paying a higher amount for their fees, but they will expect more for their money. It doesn't cost anything to be friendly. With everything skyrocketing in price, it will take something more than they have been getting to earn their money. Most shooters I know don't base their decision on which shoot to attend by the type of trophy they might win. They consider it entertainment and socializing, and go according to where they will enjoy the most.

    I don't agree with the state's choices on the reduced target prices for kids, but I won't get into that. I don't see them changing their minds. On your proposal to furnish discounted prices until they enter the money any time during the target year.....who is going to monitor that? What a nightmare to try and police!!

    Our State shoot attendance continues to spiral downwards. I would imagine it will only be rated a "2" for All-American points next year, which will keep some out of state shooters away to attend a higher rated shoot elsewhere. Other states use their state shoot to hold the SCTP state championships at the same time to inflate their numbers to receive a higher rating. Maybe we should do as some states do and hold them at the same time, but have them on designated traps at the end of the trap line to avoid the grumpy old men.

    These are just some of my thoughts and ideas. I think Colorado has some of the finest shooters in the country, and some pretty good young ones coming up through the ranks. If your shoot is not drawing them in, ask them "why?", and listen.

    Jay Beaman
     
  7. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    Jay, good feedback on the subject. I want to address a couple things.
    1. As far club management not treating shooters well during an ATA registered event it is unacceptable. When a club is throwing registered targets they are representing ATA as well as CSTA and they should treat shooters with professional courtesy. If anyone runs into an issue where that is not the case they should report this to the Zone V.P. so it can be looked into it.
    2. To police and monitor the the discounted targets for kids would be done by punching their average card or their CSTA sticker.
    3. Our past State shoot was down in attendance due to several reasons such as economy, Vernal shoot, SCTP holding their own shoot earlier in the week. Next year we will not compete with Vernal, not much we can do about the economy and as far as SCTP kids go, we can discuss the thought of having it back next year. When they shot at Delta, they had designated traps. I am not sure if this will be an option for them since I heard that their attendance was up for prior years. We can always disscused this option.
     
  8. ray119

    ray119 TS Member

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    Sportshot, forgot about that club, always called it the Watkins club.

    Would you like a 1/2 dozen molded animal statues for free? Still in the original "Made in Thailand" box? Wife won't let me bring them in the house, and they didn't sell in the garage sale last week.

    I have seen the Rams head buckles, they would be awesome to win!
     
  9. BNicely

    BNicely TS Member

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    As the father of a new junior shooter I can provide you with a few ideas/comments. First of all, we are new to registered shooting and attended our first state shoot last month, which I thought was run very well and we enjoyed the entire experience. I always viewed the concept of target discounts to juniors and subs as a way to encourage new shooters and parents to attend. I will also state that I understand the business side of these shoots and can tell you that we don't want the clubs to lose money on the junior shooters, but let's not reinvent the wheel when it comes to juniors playing the options. Some states only let juniors shoot for money if they pay full price on their first and all subsequent entries, they can't enter the money in the middle of a tournament, which I think is a good policy.

    Again remember that I am new to this sport but at a typical multi-day event I see a lot of 4 and 5 figure guns, people aren't out there shooting their 870's (except for me!). So I think most of us can accept an increase in both the state fees and the daily fees without a big impact on attendance. There may be a lot of complaining but it seems most shooters spend a lot more money playing the options than on shooting fees so I think an increase is certaintly justified. As a business you don't want to get to the point were you have to reduce the quality of your service or your product (quality trophies). This will just reduce your participation even more. Thanks for listening.

    Brian Nicely
     
  10. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    Brian

    Thank you for your response. I met you and your son Alex. I can tell that Alex was pleasure to have at our State shoot (I hope he likes the bag he won!!!). We look forward to seeing much of you and your son in the near future. Great comments.
    Luis G.
     
  11. shootalot

    shootalot TS Member

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    I have been a Colorado trap shooter for over 30 years. I have no idea who Luis Gedo is or what his agenda is as far as posting this on a nationwide forum. If CSTA needs more money and it is on the agenda of the CSTA BOD's then post it on the CSTA website or do a mailing to the members for input, not the whole nation.

    But if this is a legitimate discussion, and if the CSTA needs to raise the dues, just do it. Dues do go up. Unquestionably, the Colorado State Shoot trophies have gone downhill, lets increase the daily fee's or have a trophy fee and improve them. Another $50+- a year per shooter is not much to ask to keep the CSTA functional.
     
  12. bluedevil

    bluedevil Active Member

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    I have been a Colorado trap shooter for 40 years and I don't have any idea who shootalot is but I know who Luis is. If he wants to post something on a site read by a lot of shooters I see nothing wrong with it. You can also get some good ideas from other areas of the country where something new has worked. Have a vote of the members and go with the majority, my vote is to raise fees a small amount. Trap is still a bargin, I have taken up golf 4 days a week and believe me golf costs more. Don't miss the shootin but miss the guys!
    Dick Ogle
     
  13. bluedevil

    bluedevil Active Member

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    Thanks Sportshot, remember well the old shoots and the great trophies, my belt buckles mean a lot to me. Times change, economies change but one thing never changes. You bust you butt to run a club or shoot and all you hear is negative and "you should have", that's why I quit mostly. Best to you in all your endeavors.
    Dick
     
  14. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    Dick, thank you for your support. I sure miss seeing you around. I hope you are doing great. What is funny is that I gave up golf for trapshooting. Maybe I should consider going back. I figured that this forum has people that do not care about the sport and they just want to be negative, etc. etc. I took a chance so the word was spread out among the shooters in Colorado. I hope more positive comes out than negative. Come by and see us some day.

    LG
     
  15. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    California holds the SCTP shoot on the Saturday before our State Shoot. So they shoot their 200 targets and are finished that evening. Some stay to shoot the State program but most go home. They have all the fields to use.
     
  16. TREE

    TREE TS Member

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    I havent been to the Colorado State shoot in 4 years now and yes I am not the most favorite of some shooters; but I do want to add alittle to this even though I live in Wyoming now. First it is a business some of us think it is someones responsiblity to throw targets; it seems that many don't recognize that volunteers do all the work to make these shoots happen,there isnt a pay check for anyone that runs the clubs or the state shoot even though we do pay people to help( trap help etc.) Making comments about trophies management of shoots etc dont help CSTA or clubs. Positive reinforcement does, I know most of the guys that run Delta they spend alot of time and there own funds to make it work. I have shot state shoots and never felt more at home than I have since the Delta club took on this challege and made every shooter feel at home. I do agree that better trophies make people take the time, gives them the incentive to spend the money to go to shoots. The belt buckles that have been given in the past were wonderful I never had the scores to win one but that did entice me to want to make the shoot on different occassions.
    Enough of that now as the previous posting stated Vernal hurt the state shoot, I have shot Vernal on many occasions and know alot of those guys also, what made Vernal MONEY not the money that they had but MONEY that some of the shooters have and wanted to share with the sport. How does this solve the problem with the attendance at The State Shoot spend money make it worth shooters time and money. Lose the first few years and gain in the future. Buy nice trophy's have nice dinners and maybe entertainment raise target prices it will work make it a great shoot people will pay the price to have a great experience. Make it a community event get more help from vendors including resturants motels that make money on this event. Sorry if this sounds like old TREE BS but some things to think about.
     
  17. bellemandi

    bellemandi TS Member

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    Somehow this thread has gotten off track. The subject is not the State shoot or trophies. The concern and the top priority is to be able to come up with options to balance our yearly budget. Yes, it is true that our State shoot is a significant part of our expenses but at this point it is not the subject of our problems. Delta has done a great job hosting the shoot, it is not their fault that we do not have another facility that can do the same. That is the main reason why is so important to get our budget in track and to continue to go forward with our building fund so we can have those options down the road.
    Our trophy has worked very hard in the past couple of years upgrading the quality as well as raising the quantity of trophies handed out at our State shoot. It is not an easy job to do and it is very difficult to please everyone. It is not nice to see though, the happiness of several B.C and D shooters that have been able to win trophies in the past couple of years that we not offered in the past. These shooters are the ones that we want to work hard to keep in the sport. Buckles are a great idea, we are looking into them for the upcoming shoot, we did not offer buckles the past couple of years because ATA had furnished buckles for their trophies and we did not want to duplicate nor take away from their trophies.
     
  18. bocephus

    bocephus Member

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    Another thread screwed up because of people deleting their messages, no surprise who they are....
     
  19. moron

    moron TS Member

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    Luis,

    What does the CSTA spend on meals at the various board meetings? Can't you guys eat before the meetings and have them at the club house? That money would buy several buckles.
    We compare Colorado to Wyoming but I heard the same concerns at their state shoot. Lower attendance, less money, and budget shortfalls.
     
  20. darwinbene

    darwinbene Member

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    CSTA is a do nothing organization. The ideas are there to raise the funds but the vote that passes is against the suggestions. We trapshooters pay high dollars for guns, RVs, and expenses to get there. When it comes time to up target fees, pay for 1/2 price Jr targets (to promote the sport), and increase membership fees we panic and say we can't afford it. CSTA is already declining in membership so what do we have to lose? Continue to go in the hole financially and there won't be a CSTA.

    So far the CSTA has chose to eliminate the SCTP, Jr target fees, and at the last meeting, decided to eliminate the Lifetime membership for becoming a VET. There is maybe a couple of avenues to raise money for the CSTA. Increase state dues and state daily fees. Impose $1 to $2 per 100 targets for trophies and expenses. Maybe a third option is to find a cash cow in fund rasing buy way of raffels or what ever means.

    There could be a way of becoming a 501(c)(3) organizations to qualify for grants. The ATA has done this why can't the CSTA do this? There is all kinds of moneies out there for people setting up grants for the betterment of recreational purposes, youth programs, and general public enjoyment. Take a look at all the state that border Colorado how they build and fund these programs.

    If there is a quorum at the upcoming State Zone Shoot I will be surprised. The Eastern Zone couldn't field a team for the State Zone Shoot. It could be from gas prices being to high, or just plain lack of interest in the State Zone Shoot. The by laws state that the CSTA will have two major shoots per year. I think the by laws need to re-done so that the State Zone Shoot be combined with the State Shoot. This would reduce expenses tremendously. Until somebody shows me different, I don't see other states holding seperate State Zone Shoots. Time have changed and it is time to re-write the bylaws for our state. Why is that such a big hurdle?

    Just some thoughts and who am I, not someone of any importance. I just returned fro the Wyoming State Shoot and what an enjoyment it was. All the clubs working together for the general well being of the shooters. A lot of ideas on rasing moneies for their state shoot and the state organization.

    Respectfully, Darwin Benedict
     
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