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Attention 1 Eyed Shooters..... 2 Questions

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by blade819, Apr 8, 2008.

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  1. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    After completing my first year of shooting competition, I still have 2 questions that have gone unanswered even though I've read a number of books, articles etc. and have watched just about every DVD. Those articles and DVD's never address the one eyed shooter. If any of you are a one eyed shooter, FIRST.... what is your gun's POI? Some books and teachers say "flat" 50/50. I've had my best shooting at 70/30. SECOND..... Most say to hold a low gun,perhaps the bead at the top of the house. I've been experimenting with holding a higher gun, maybe 1 foot, at nos. 1,2,4 & 5 and lower at 3. I've had pretty good results. I would greatly appreciate anyones input.

    John
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Take the book that says 50/50 and drop it in the nearest garbage can. You need a built in vertical lead for trap because you are shooting at a rising target, 70/30 sounds good. Holding a low gun is a good idea for a one eyed shooter inorder to see the path of the target as soon as possible. HMB
     
  3. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    I dont see what the POI of the gun has anything to do with being a 1 or 2 eye shooter.

    If your best shooting has been at 70/30 than shoot at 70/30 and forget the books.

    I never hold the bead on the edge or above the edge of the house. Whether your a one eyed shooter or not, why block any of your view of the target?

    Try holding back/below the edge of the house while looking/keeping your eye above the edge of the house so you can see the target when it leaves the house.

    Also since you have had pretty good results why not go with your own results and continue on with them. Trying this and that when other things are working will never get you really good until you stop trying everything and begin to work on what is already working on for you.

    Good shooting and blammyspot them all.
     
  4. BLHenson

    BLHenson TS Member

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    I sometimes shoot one eyed (I have a dominance problem, switched from right to left handed shooting, but still sometimes have problems with cross dominance). I shoot guns that shoot 100% high, but not because I shoot one eyed. Try to find a gun that "shoots where you look" and you'll be fine.

    Most one eyed shooters hold on the lip of the house. This is because they can't use their off eye to "look through" the barrel and see the target out of the house. If you are going to hold higher (I do) you have to make sure that you wait for the target before you move your gun.

    Watch Nora shoot, and her hold points (or take her class) to get an idea of how a truly great one eyed shooter does it.

    Ben
     
  5. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    Mine is set around 55/45, I hold on the house in 2,3,4 and a foot off the corner and a little low in 1,and 5. I think your POI should be what works for you, I think anytime a one eye shooter holds above the house it is a warm-up for hearing LOSS...........

    GS
     
  6. BrowningGal

    BrowningGal TS Member

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    POI is relative to how you handle your gun. Phil Kiner says it best... adjust your gun for smoke. If you're getting good smoke when you break targets, leave it alone. If you're pushing the pieces up by hitting the bottom of the target, raise your POI. If you're pushing the pieces down by hitting the top of the target, lower your POI. Go for smoke.

    I'm a recent convert to one-eyed shooting due to a cross-firing problem. This past weekend, I spent two days working with Britt Robinson, and here's what ended up working for me. My bead is on the far edge of the house, and my eyes are about one foot above that far edge in a soft focus. When shooting one-eyed, your peripheral vision is limited, so you want to avoid hiding the bird with your gun, so you really don't want your bead or any part of your barrel above that far edge. From there, you need to work out how low you need to hold. Your hold point may be different from what I'm doing. Don't be afraid to experiment. Play around with it and find what works for you. Everybody is different, and what works for me may not work for you or anybody else.
     
  7. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    John, listen to what others are saying in regards to using what works for you... For me it depends on the type of gun and the efficiency of the trigger as to what I need the POI to be. THats pure_ole_dee_crap about using a flat shooter because your one eyed. The gun I'm using now and have mostly been the last few years is 14" at 40 yards. That same POI is used for the second shot of doubles as well. As for where to hold on the house, I'm not sure I should say. Many years ago I was goofing around with Kiner and his eye graphics that were used in instructional classes and could do things with one eye that it took practice for two eyed shooters to accomplish. That said, in singles I hold a couple feet above the lid and the same for 1 st shot of dubs. In handicap never more than two feet and sometimes below the lid slightly if I'm having difficulty in recognizing intial flight path. Sometimes you have to adjust hold points (or should) wether one or two eyed due to visibilty/background. Your the best judge of what finally you discover :)
     
  8. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    " I dont see what the POI of the gun has anything to do with being a 1 or 2 eye shooter."

    I have only recently become a one-eyed shooter and have found that it is necessary to raise my POI from 60-40 or thereabouts to 70-or80-something.

    When I shot with two eyes, I could crowd the target with the barrel and still see it with my off (left) eye. Now that my left eye is no longer in the picture, I need to establish more clearance between gun and target so I never cover the target with the barrel before I fire.

    Morgan
     
  9. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    As stated above your POI is your POI ... shoot what works best for you. I took Nora's clinic and also had Leo's clinic. Both were a great experience and many valuable lessons learned. Both of them said that a key item is to see the target as soon as it leaves the house and you must never loose sight of the target. Nora who is a one-eyed shooter, teaches that you should see some cement above your barrel. That is what works best for me. Bill Malcolm
     
  10. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    IMO, the last thing you need is a flatter shooting gun. We can't 'cover' a target like other people might do. We have to see it. The biggest thing we need to do is wait for the target to clear the barrel; it's easy for the target to startle you if you hold too high. That's been my experience though.

    My guns are currently 70/30 and that's too low for me. I prefer a higher shooting gun (has nothing to do with me shooting one-eyed). I typically hold just over the house (maybe 1') I do though, hold a much higher gun for doubles, always have.

    Bottom line...do what works best for you. If you're smoking them where you're at, stay there, if you're not, then experiment.
     
  11. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I'll join the crowd that says one-eyed shooters do not need a flat-shooting gun. I don't care how many eyes a shooter employs, his/her gun still has to shoot where they look and its POI has to be compatible with their how their brain sees a target. Sort of like the hardware being compatible with the software...

    At the risk of raising the ire of the paper-punchers among us, I'll state that what the patterning board tells me isn't always factual but that it tells me my trap guns all shoot at least 130% high. I don't know how that can hold true in real time shooting because I can "oops" and cover a target with my barrel and it still breaks decently. So how high do they really shoot? I can't honestly tell you but they break targets so I consider myself on a need-to-know basis with regard to POI. And apparently, I don't need to know.

    My hold points are the front edge of the roof for singles unless they are set low or are being affected by an air current, either higher or lower - then I hold on the back edge of the roof (or lower if the roof has little pitch) because I'd rather chase the high ones than the low ones. For handicap, my baseline is the back edge of the roof or the top course of block, depending upon roof pitch, and can go downward from there. I'm not a fan of holding a high gun because I believe the brain needs adequate time to see the target and accurately compute the coordinates for a collision of the target and your shot charge. My brain sometimes needs all the time it can get.

    Ed
     
  12. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    I'm a left handed, one eye shooter, this is my 4th year shooting ATA and carry a 95+ average. I have to agree with midalake about 100%. I have my unsingle shooting 60/40, and hold just like midalake does. I see the bird exit the house and rise to the bird. I've tried shooting two eyed and do OK, but it just does not feel right. I guess it's the 45 years of rifle shooting that I have to overcome.
     
  13. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

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    I'm still fairly new to the sport but in my researching one thing I found that seemed to make a lot of sense (and applies to this discussion) was that the POI is also relative to the (vertical) swing speed.

    In other words, us one eyed shooters that start with a lower hold point are more likely to be moving the gun faster than those with a higher hold point.

    Now when you add in the (vertical) swing speed, that gun that shoots a (static) 100% on paper may have dropped significantly in the real world.

    Made sense to me anyway, YMMV
     
  14. debateableone

    debateableone TS Member

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    I am one eyed shooter as I use tape to block out my non-dominate eye or it tries to take over. I shoot a POI of 100%, but I hold down on the house or very near the top within 1-2" as I want to see the target leave the house.
    I always hold for a straight away from each post, this way I don't have to make double angles out of the targets. IF you think about it when you cheat for an angle and you get a straight away now you have made it more complex as you move to it, you may shoot behind it? AN angle is still angle that you have to move the barrel to, so whats the difference? When I get a straight away it is one move up and shoot the target. It has helped me maintain a AAA averages in singles and 92% in handicap from the 27 yard line. Not great but not terrible. I want to get my handicap to 95-96%, but those few targets are a challenge.
     
  15. Kent

    Kent TS Member

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    I have been shooting with my left eye closed since my first Daisy BB gun, and that is over 50 years ago. Point of impact is very important to many shooters that want the gun to shoot where they look (mostly at a rising target) I have a gun that I have never patterned, but was told when I purchased it new that it was 70/30. One of my squad mates did pattern it when he was checking his guns. He told me it was much higher that that.

    One thing I would say is that as a one eyed shooter I prefer a lower rib on my guns. I have developed many bad habits and bead checking and actually rifle shooting at the bird. I have had many guns with the new fashionable bridge girder type of rib and I am unable to score consistently with them. I even had a couple of unsingle shotguns that were just not favorable to my style of shooting.

    I also like a low hold on the bottom lip of the traphouse so that I can see the target better with my open eye. This has also led to another bad habit when CVR’s/voice releases became the norm. I begin my gun movement when I call for the target. I know this is wrong but it has worked for me.

    Don’t feel that you are going to be at a disadvantage by shooting with just eye. You will get more consistent as you shoot more.
     
  16. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    I want to thanks everyone for their opinions. While there may be some differences as to POI for a one eye shooter, it seems that the majority agrees that the 50/50 "book" suggestion isn't very good advice. I am shooting about 70/30 now and had pretty good results this morning. I believe what I was told by an "expert"All American while at the Southern Grand. That is "high patterns break birds". As for gun hold. There is definately agreement that a low gun for a one eyed shooter is the place to be. So, I'll continue with the way I'm doing it. As for doubles, I've experienced my best scores holding higher on the first bird, about a foot off the house, since I know the flight. This enables me to shoot faster and to get on the second bird quicker. I believe it's time for me to get together with Nora for a clinic though. Just about everyone I've talked to has suggested that. Hopefully, one day she'll have a clinic closer to North Georgia. Thanks again for eyerones input.

    John
     
  17. toolguy

    toolguy Member

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    I agree that each person has his/her own "natural" POI, regardless of what gun they are shooting. The trick is to adjust the gun to capitalize on this. The desired effect being that the gun shoots where you are looking so you only have to work on looking at the target.

    Having said that, I find that I shoot better if I hold a high gun, much like a two eyed shooter does, but with one significant difference. I hold the gun at least one post to the right of where I am standing, or somewhat in line with the flight path of the most extreme right angle target I'm likely to get at the post where I am. For example, I'll hold at about post two, (midway between the corner and mid-house), when I'm on post one, or hold on post three (mid-house),when standing on two, etc. This is what allows me to hold the higher gun because, due to the placement of the dot on my left lens, I am able to see the target with my left eye as it appears. This also requires less vertical gun movement to the target. On post five, I just hold about one position off the right corner. All these hold points are subject to slight adjustment due to varying house configurations.

    After shooting for years with the gun on or below the front edge, and not being able to carry much more than about a 90 average, I now shoot consistently in the mid nineties, and have the confidence to know that this technique is not what is preventing me from further improvement. Try it, it just might work for you as well. E-mail me directly if you wish, adjust the "at" and "dot"

    Regards,

    Don Whiton
     
  18. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    I always shot two-eyed with no problems until about four years ago. Then in a fall shoot, last event of the day (doubles) is started having trouble with the second bird. I realized I had started cross firing, and closed my left eye to finish out the event. The usual tests still show I'm right eye dominant, but when I bring a gun up to my cheek I go cross-eyed and see two beads, etc. I've "solved" the problems with tape on the lens, but still try periodically to go back to two eyes, so far without success. One of these days I'll get a Jordan wall chart and see if a lot of practice there can help me. Anyway, since the change happened I still shoot the same gun set to the same point of impact, with about the same yearly averages. In my experience you don't need a flat shooter just because you are shooting with one eye or two, or even change much of anything.

    Perhaps Phil Kiner will see your thread and add his viewpoint. He has studied and written about the problems of cross dominance more than anybody else, and I'm told his latest video addresses those problems at length. You can find more info, including contact info, at the link above.
     
  19. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    "He has studied and written about the problems of cross dominance more than anybody else, and I'm told his latest video addresses those problems at length. You can find more info, including contact info, at the link above."

    Is "his latest video" the same one selling for $54.00 on the web site linked above or is there a newer one?

    Morgan
     
  20. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    Hey blade, I read your comments about the posters so far. You might want to rethink your doubles hold. I have shot doubles since inception of my ATA shooting. Doubles is actually one of my strong events. It is not unusual for me to go 200-300 first targets without dropping one. In Doubles, the taking of the pair is all about the first target. I can guarantee you if you are holding above the roof on Doubles you are not able to accomplish a few tings. One would be to not see the differences in the flights of the first target. Also and the most important, you cannot take the first target faster if your holding higher unless your spot shooting. The first target in doubles should never be spot shot. I have proved this over and over in doing teaching over the years. It would also be my guess you do not like to lead-off. If you do more lead-off on a squad it will help force you to keep that gun down due to the change in target location with the station move. In a general statement, if your doubles average is above 85 and your missing more than 4 first targets in a 100 bird event, one needs to re-think how they set up for the pair.

    GS
     
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