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atf rules for transportation of ammo

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by xringjim, Dec 5, 2009.

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  1. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    I'm a fireworks lover. Through my fireworks club I have found out that to transport ANY regulated explosive material you MUST have an ATF licence to do so. Even intrastate. Now, are we breaking the law when we throw a box of ammo in the trunk of the car and head off to the range? Anyone know what gives? Jim
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Jim, what is the definition of "ANY regulated explosive material"? That might answer the question.
     
  3. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Gun powder is not an Explosive but a Propellant
     
  4. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Aside from 'firearms', I'm not speaking about guns per-say. And to try and tell an ATF officer that smokeless powder is different from black powder is just plain silly in the real world. The point I'm bringing up is that the ATF now has rules concerning the transportation of explosive materials on public property. There are no amount limits given that I know of. As best as I can tell and have read, they require a license to transport these materials. Whether we're talking private or commercial. The DOT determines if you need a placard on the vehicle, not the ATF. Someone with more brains than me should find out what the bottom line is here. Jim
     
  5. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I'd say that since loaded ammunition isn't a hazmat shipment would say all that needs to be said. It just has to have an ord sticker on the package.

    ss
     
  6. traphouse52

    traphouse52 Member

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    It makes you wonder why any one would start such a thread. Gun powder and black powder fall under two differnt classes. Don't give the liberals any ideas. Any ATF agent definitely knows the difference between the classes of propellants we use and explosives used in fireworks.
     
  7. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Traphouse, my intent is to enlighten people to agencies within our government that are so to speak 'back-dooring' they're way into regulating ANY explosive material being transported on our roads. Today its fireworks. Is it so much a disconnect between the two? In our courts laws are determined by 'precedent'. If the ATF is allowed to regulate fireworks transportation by private individuals, is ammo far behind? After all, the 'F' in ATF does stand for firearms. Jim
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Wouldn't gasoline and propane be higher on that pole than smokeless powder????
     
  9. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    Federal explosives regulations promulgated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) define two general categories of fireworks sold in the United States: “display fireworks” and “consumer fireworks.”

    Display fireworks are the large fireworks used in shows, generally under the supervision of a trained pyrotechnician. The regulations at 27 CFR, Part 555, require that any person engaging in the business of importing, manufacturing, dealing in, or otherwise receiving display fireworks must first obtain a Federal explosives license or permit from ATF for the specific activity.

    Consumer fireworks are the small fireworks usually sold at stands around the Fourth of July holiday. ATF does not regulate the importation, distribution, or storage of completed consumer fireworks, but other Federal, State, and local agencies do regulate these items to a varying degree. Because consumer fireworks contain pyrotechnic compositions classified by ATF as explosive materials, the manufacturing of consumer fireworks requires a Federal explosives license from ATF.
     
  10. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Cy-kick, the fireworks organization ( PGI) has an annual event held in a select few states once a year. As of the last one ( Aug. 09) the ATF told them that anyone bringing explosives ( powder) to the event must have an ATF User Limited License for ANY transportation of those materials. This applies whether you're in commerce or not. This means if I wanted to take a single pack of firecrackers for my own use I must have a license from the ATF. At least that's the way I understand it to be. Jim
     
  11. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    If you made the fireworks, yes you need a license. If you bought "consumer" fireworks, no.(transporting) Now the PGI may not want you to transport onto there event without a license. You will need to ask them.

    Still has nothing to do with transporting ORM-D ammo. Black powder is a different story. I know our local civil war re-enactors have a mobil magazine to transport their powder.
     
  12. Darrell S

    Darrell S TS Member

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    Prior to retirement several years ago I used to deal with similar issues for hazardous chemicals on a regular basis. The Department of Transportation regulates the shipment of hazardous materials in title 49 of the code of federal regulations. This info is from the hazmat table, 49CFR172.101. Small arms ammo is classified as Cartridges, small arms and shipped as ORM-D. See 49CFR172.316 for more on ORM-D materials. Black powder for small arms is classed and shipped as a 4.1, NA0027. 4.1 is a classification for flammable solids. Smokeless powder for small arms (100 pounds or less) is also classed and shipped as a 4.1, NA3178. We should also be aware of the materials of trade exception in 49CFR171.8. This exception provides relief from packaging, labeling, marking, shipping papers for most hazardous materials. The exception applies to those who are not in the business of transporting hazardous materials. This exception is what allows you to bring a jug of gasoline home in your trunk for your lawnmower. I am not aware that the ATF gets involved with the shipment of the above but it's possible, and they may not know or care about DOT or other regs.
    Darrell
     
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