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ATA Rules for assigning handicap yardage?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Beau69, Dec 28, 2009.

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  1. Beau69

    Beau69 Active Member

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    yes they can do it.
    we were talking about this a while back and a guy simply emailed kkey@shootata.com (Kathy Key) who is in charge of handicapping, etc and said
    "my name is _______, ATA # _________. I am currently on ____ yd line and would like to be placed on _____ yard line based on shooter request"

    or something along those lines.

    You can request to be placed anywhere (1/2 yards included) back to the 25.0 yard line.

    Beau
     
  2. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    From page 29 of the on-line ATA rule book (click on the link above). Bill Malcolm

    3. ASSIGNED YARDAGE INCREASES

    a. A member may appeal an assigned yardage increase by writing
    to the ATA office, to the attention of the Executive Director after
    having shot 500 targets at the assigned yardage. After receiving a
    reduction based on such an appeal for any further reduction 1000
    additional registered Handicap targets must be shot.

    b. There will be no yardage increase by shooter request beyond 25
    yards. Subsequent to a shooter receiving an increase in yardage
    by request he/she will be ineligible for reductions from that yardage
    assignment based on 1000 target reviews for a period of 2 years.

    c. The only persons authorized to increase a member’s handicap
    yardage are member(s) of the Central Handicap Committee or voting
    member(s) of the Executive Committee.
     
  3. Kingbang

    Kingbang TS Member

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    I dont know what the ATA has to say,you can go to their website and read the rules. 97's will get you punches. 80's at 20 yards? thats really not competitive. If these people were to just move back there scores are going to drop. Thats why its "earned yardage" By contrast,the PITA will allow you to move to the 26 yardline on request. Brilliant or stupid? Allowing anyone to request longer yardage really pisses those of us off that "earned" our yardage.(Im 25.5)yet on the other hand there's more easy money for the long yardage shooters to take. Which,as we all know is an issue in itself for some. Most of these requests to shoot from yardage you haven't earned comes from wanting to squad and shoot with a buddy that is beyond the 2 or 3 yard rule. Again we are PITA and resist allowing 3 yards even though its allowed by rule.We feel its dangerous.

    JMHO

    Dennis

    CGESC
     
  4. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    So...Sportshot "has this friend" who's shooting high 80s / low 90s, he's NOT earning yardage (wonder why?), but he CAN shoot (mind you) and he is competitive (his 80s and 90s just haven't been properly appreciated yet, that's all). And he doesn't have a rule book & doesn't know how to look one up.


    Now, this person is _not_ Sportshot, mind you...it's one of his acquaintances. Yep. Fantastic Sporting Clays shot...just doesn't have time for this silly "earning yardage" crap the ATA seems so hung up about.


    We gotcha, bro.
     
  5. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Sportshot,

    There's no short cuts to the promise land. If they, using this term loosely, are such good shots it won't take them anytime to gain yardage and be where they think they ought to be. High 80's to low 90's isn't very good for a club shoot, let alone anything of size.

    The ATA's system of getting punches actually works pretty good if all the shooters are doing their part.

    Just remember declared yardage is for 2 years no ands,ifs, or buts. Enjoy the short yardage while you can.

    ss
     
  6. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    I did request & receive an increase so i could shoot with a couple of my buddies, (knowing i would not ever get there any other way) WELL it didn't work out too well for me as,-- 1 quit shooting (Dr's orders) --1 moved,-- & 1 passed away, all within 1 yr. So welcome to a yardage group where i don't belong as (at age 69)i will probably never shoot enough targets to get a reduction now that i don't have those guys to shoot with. So think about things before you do what i did. I still enjoy shooting & will make more new friends and i know this is an unusual circumstance. Ross
     
  7. Sigraph

    Sigraph TS Member

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    I was one of the 20 yard shooters just like all newbies are. I'm currently or (last time I shot) on the 24.5 yard line - and an A class shooter when AA was the highest you could get. I never really thought about a guy on the 20 yard line other than how magical it will be when he (or she) earns a half yard or a yard. I wish I was new to trapshooting and still thought about it 24 hours a day like I used to. It was one of the funnest experiences of my life. I haven't shot registered trap in over 10 years, but still regard it as one of the greatest sports there are. Last time I shot there was no such thing as voice activated targets.
     
  8. birddogs46

    birddogs46 Active Member

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    a couple guys, at the club i shoot at, have went from the 20yd to the 19, and was a little put out about the reduction, their comment was they do shoot better farther back, so the wise ass i can be, i ask them how come their 16 average was higher than their caps...would luv to be on the 20 or 19 on a windy day at the grand..dk
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    If Sportshot paid his dues he might have a rule book.

    Don
     
  10. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    Let me offer a different opinion. I started shooting ATA targets in 1978. According to the ATA Shooter Information Center I have shot 32,800 registered handicap targets. My records show I have 32,400. I believe my records are complete and correct. For many years I bounced around between 20 and 24 yards. Early in 2007 I was at 22.5 yards. If I remember correctly I had just refused a reduction to 21.5. Some friends from Idaho were planning on going to the SW Grand, as was I, and I wanted to squad with them. The problem was that they were all on the 27. I asked them if it would be OK with them if I requested an increase to the 25, and they all said they had no problems with that. I emailed Neil Winston, who was on the EC at the time, and asked him for the yardage increase. He obliged, and I shot with my friends at San Antonio, no better nor worse than usual. Later that summer I broke a 96 to move to the 25.5. In 2008 I won a handicap with a 98 to move to the 26.5, and a week later broke a 97 to move to the 27. I've been offered two reductions since. The first was before the mandatory two-year period was up, and when I pointed that out the reduction was withdrawn. The second this past summer I refused.

    For me the yardage I'm on has made very little difference in my handicap averages. As evidence, consider the following:

    I've shot 3600 targets from 20 or 20.5 yards and averaged 85.4;

    I've shot 2600 targets from 21 or 21.5 yards and averaged 87.3;

    I've shot 7400 targets from 22 or 22.5 yards and averaged 88.1;

    I've shot 9500 targets from 23 or 23.5 yards and averaged 85.8;

    I've shot 2400 targets from 24 or 24.5 yards and averaged 83.5;

    I've shot 3800 targets from 25 or 25.5 yards and averaged 85.8;

    I've shot 300 targets from 26.5 and averaged 92.7;

    I've shot 2800 targets from 27 yards and averaged 88.7.

    I'm in favor of letting shooters request an increase if they want. I see no harm, and at least where I shoot, it is a lot easier to squad at long yardage rather than short.
     
  11. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    IMHO All yardage should be earned. I don't care to shoot with 25 yardage shooters that wiggle around and cause distractions. If they were good shooters they would have earned the yardage, not requested it. The shooters I know of that have requested yardage are shooting beyound their ability and only requested the yardage advance because of social reasons. Post-2
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Post 2- But, trapshooting is a social sport. I used to be very distracted by a shooter to my right who moved a bit. I was advised by a top shooter to pay attention to the target and not anything else that is going on to the side. Some days I can do that. Some days, usually after I have missed several targets, I can't. I suspect I missed the targets because I was not looking, with concentration, where I should have been looking.

    I have asked to be moved to the 25 yard line and my request was refused.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Try blinders and Pat you just want to go forward. See you in week or so.

    Don
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    flincher100

    "Why is there an ATA requirement that a certain number of 16yd. targets have to be shot before one can get his handicap yardage reassigned?"

    Don't you mean before one can get his handicap yardage REDUCED? Your yardage is already assigned. An increase can be had for the asking. So just what are you looking for?????

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    flincher, it's too bad you quit shooting ATA before you talked to your delegate to see if he or she could do something. I've seen it help in cases where the handicap average was terrible and there was clearly no point in continuing to shoot from there. That's the idea behind "Special Reviews" and they are in the rulebook too.

    Neil
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    That's easy. If someone is a super singles shooter we'd probably be making a mistake if we reduced him or her to the 18, wouldn't we? We just want to see how close we can put you.

    Neil
     
  17. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Post-2,

    I've seen more "posing" done by fence shooters than any others. Lord forbid if the shoulder mount wasn't just right and they had to start the whole routine over again.

    Neil & Bob,

    I'm going to have to side with Flintcher on this one. There is absolutely no reason to make a shooter shoot singles in order for his 'caps yardage review.

    This was a major bitch of mine when I shot registered trap targets.

    Your singles average dictates what class you shoot singles in. The same for doubles. Why can't 'caps be done in the same manor? Don't give me all that BS about classification, it just doesn't hold water. Every class should be judged on its own merits.

    How I found out about this "rule ie money maker" is when I hadn't received a review in 1500 targets and inquired about it. I was told that I needed to shoot my singles. I told the lady that I quit shooting singles as I didn't care for them. She replied by saying "No singles=No review".

    I quickly became disinterested in the ATA shortly there after and quit registered trap shooting. I can tell you for one that I haven't missed it one bit.

    Since then I have learned about Sporting Clays, and Skeet and I'm a much better/ well rounded shooter because of it.

    Sorry for being so long winded.

    ss
     
  18. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Here is a rule I feel needs changed. I have not shot for two years since 2008. My handicap average from 2003 to 2008 was 78.26 as a low to 84.84 as a high from 20 yards.That's on a least 2500 targets a year. Now, i am going to try and get back into the game but i now have to shoot penalty yardage. Since my handicap averages have been so low for so long i think the penality rule hurts alot of new shooters and guys comming back into the game. Even if i am allowed to shot from 20 yards were i should be i probably will have no impact on the shoot. To force a shooter to shoot penality with a proven shooting ability and low score only hurts the sport. The only reason i feel people are forced to shoot penality handicap is to force them to get the required targets in for the year. In this day and age expense of travel, cost of shells, cost of shooting etc this is a mistake to new shooters and guys wanting to come back into the sport. If you feel different please explain? The clubs i go to trapshooting have dropped by 50% or more. I think it may be time to review some of these hanicap rules.
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    short shucker

    "I'm going to have to side with Flintcher on this one. There is absolutely no reason to make a shooter shoot singles in order for his 'caps yardage review."

    So I guess this is an example of the shooters picking and choosing the rule that they like and the one that they don't. Personally I don't care if you shoot registered targets or you don't. It is no skin off my nose one way or the other. You could however pick a better reason than. I didn't get my way so I won't play the game the way everyone else has to because I am special.

    Well when you are through being full of yourself look at the rule all the rule. Not just the ones that you feel fit you. As an example this is in the rule book also.

    9. Only those shooters who have registered 500 or more singles targets
    in the current or previous target year will be reviewed. If a shooter
    has insufficient singles targets registered, his counter will be zeroed
    and he will be printed on the summary until sufficient singles targets
    are registered. At such time the most current 1,000 handicap targets
    will be used in the review. The following table is used to determine
    “relative 16 yard average”:

    16 yard average shooter cannot be reduced below

    97.0% or higher 24.0 yards

    95.0% to 96.9% 22.0 yards

    93.0% to 94.9% 20.0 yards

    Well imagine that you need a singles average to enforce this rule now don't you? Not to mention the fact that there are prescribed methods for establishing known ability. Not to mention probably a half dozen other rule that rely on singles for the verification of handicap ability.

    a.If the shooter has less than 500 targets on current year’s Average
    Card, use the previous year average and known ability.
    b. If the shooter has between 500 and 1,000 targets (inclusive) on
    his/her current year’s Average Card, use the current average and
    known ability or the previous year’s average and known ability,
    whichever is higher.

    Of course as EE says first you need to READ the rulebook to understand the rules you can't just read one and then make a major decision. Then again maybe you can after all as I said it is your decision and it would seem unreasonable to be required to shoot 500 singles targets every year. Outrageous.

    How dare they ask for that!!!!!! The rule are there for reasons and to expect the association to change them just to satisfy you and flincher is what is outrageous.

    BTW I am naturally long winded so I don't apologize for it.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Bob,

    I guess that's the reason why I live in a democratic society and was brought up in one. I can chose what to participate in and what I won't because I have a choice. However petty may be my reasoning, in the end it's my choice.

    Others may be "sheep" and just follow the status quo, but others are free thinkers and have the ability to think for themselves and decide what they want to do with their $$.

    I can see two shooters on here that quite shooting ATA targets for the same reason. Bob, can you show me two that shoot them because they favor this rule? I'll just bet most of them have never heard of this set of rules until now.

    I'm done.

    ss
     
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